Pic and vid of Fastback at 24 LeMons:

[PlanB]

Built a '73 Fastback w/944 brakes/trailing arms for the Chicago/Autobahn 24 hrs of LeMons.
We dropped out in 21st place over-all after dragging the EMPI mini sump drain bolt over a rumble strip and cracking the sump, loosing oil pressure and subsequently throwing a rod.

First time LeMons has hosted TWO Type 3's: The other (der Schnitzelwagen) winning (congratulations) the coveted IOE award and finishing 15th over all. (The Schnitzelwagen is owned/driven by Charles Navarro of 'Nickies' cylinders fame.)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vamXHJIj ... e=youtu.be

[ONEBADBUG]

How cool is that! Seems like a type 3 would be heavy. What was your race weight?

[PlanB]

How cool is that! Seems like a type 3 would be heavy. What was your race weight?

Undoubtedly heavy. But that's what we had to work with... It's gutted, of course and the glass is gone, as are the heavy stock bumpers. We also did some saw-zall and hole saw lightening. Don't know the overall weight yet. (just finished it the day before the LeMons race!)

[FJCamper]

Hi Plan B,

I have now seen it all. I never expected a road racing Type 3!

Great work. You've got to tell us more about the car, about how you beefed up the T3 suspension, all of it.

FJC

[PlanB]

Hi Plan B,

I have now seen it all. I never expected a road racing Type 3!

Great work. You've got to tell us more about the car, about how you beefed up the T3 suspension, all of it.

FJC

Thanks FJ. I based it ALL on your 'Road Race Set Up' thread - here. Thanks! What we REALLY need now is front camber!
I'd like to know more about the 'black-smithing' (twisting?) of the front torsion arms (technique details???) that you referenced in response to one of the Beetle racers.

[FJCamper]

Hi Plan B,

Do you have the extra-offset camber eccentrics installed?

FJC

[PlanB]

Hi Plan B,

Do you have the extra-offset camber eccentrics installed?

FJC

Thanks FJC,

The one's I've found don't fit. (even when ordered for the 'type 3')The 'beveled' surface is too small for the type 3 torsion arm (top) and the ball joint shaft hole is also too small for the BJ's I'm using. Everything appears to be type 1 /ghia - only? I (mistakenly) thought I could dial in a degree or more of negative camber using the top eccentric ball joints. I got more like a little less than a degree.

The car was put together last minute — so there may be a solution (type 3 specific extra offset eccentrics?) that I haven't found yet?

As I mentioned, I'm also interested in learning about the possibility of 'twisting' the ball joint mount on the torsion arm by heating (?) or is it possible to fill in the ball joint mount area with a built up welding approach, and then re- machine them for more camber angle? We made our own lowered suspension components — so I'm confident we could pull this off with proper input. I have rural / farm property and even know local blacksmiths.

BTW: Do you (or anyone else?) happen to know whether ALL of the type 3 BJ torsion arms ('65+)
are interchangeable?

Thanks for your interest and input!

[FJCamper]

Hi Plan B,

I've done blacksmith heat-and-hammer front suspension mods and I do not recommend them. It is a guessing operation.

You'd be much better off taking a pair of stock, properly-fitting T3 camber eccentics, having the hole welded closed, and the eccentric redrilled and cleaned up with a tampered reamer.

Just take a stock camber eccentric to a machine shop and tell them you need the hole moved over about 5mm from current center. That'll get you a degree and a half of negative camber.

What are you doing for a front swaybar?

FJC

[PlanB]

Thanks FJC,

Below is a photo of a Type 3 BJ upper torsion arm. The upper ball joint interface is a concave surface for the ball joint to nest into, and the bottom ball joint stem hole is straight-sided (a slot) . (there are no separate camber eccentrics?) The ball joint stem itself is offset (eccentric) allowing minimal camber adjustment.

It would seem that filling all of the concave surface of the torsion arm in and them trying to mill the 'cup' shape BJ receiving surface might be "a guessing operation" as well? Moving the hole 5mm doesn't seem to be a problem, but the concave BJ receiving 'cup' is another story...? That's why the 'blacksmithing' approach started to sound plausible.

Am I missing something?

Thanks again for your interest in and thought on this issue!

-Ric

[vdubsinjensen]

Awesome!
Bring those Type 3's down to Sebring for the ChumpCar race in September.

[FJCamper]

Hi Plan B,

Well, shows you how much I know about Type 3's. No camber adjuster eccentric? This explains the backsmithing route.

In my opinion, you can't accurately hand-bend the trailing arms in such a way as to create about 1.5 degrees negative camber. The emphasis is on the word accurately.

I'm looking for some T3 front suspension workshop diagrams before I say any more. There must be a way.

I do see adjustable front swaybars for them at Aircooled.Net

FJC

[Piledriver]

It's likely done just as link pin arms are modified, heat and bend, with the advantage of not having to maintain the same absolute axis, as the ball joints allow for some variation.

[PlanB]

Hi Plan B,

Well, shows you how much I know about Type 3's. No camber adjuster eccentric? This explains the backsmithing route.

In my opinion, you can't accurately hand-bend the trailing arms in such a way as to create about 1.5 degrees negative camber. The emphasis is on the word accurately.

I'm looking for some T3 front suspension workshop diagrams before I say any more. There must be a way.

I do see adjustable front swaybars for them at Aircooled.Net

FJC

Thanks FJC,

What do you guys think about the possibility of welding in the ball joint slot in the torsion arm and relocating the slot inboard a few mm's - to get more angle on the ball joint? This might also require building up (with a weld) the rim of the ball joint 'cup' of the torsion arm to give the ball joint it's usual amount of contact with the torsion arm 'cup'?

Let me know if your thoughts or if anyone's seen something similar done?

Thanks!

[PlanB]

It's likely done just as link pin arms are modified, heat and bend, with the advantage of not having to maintain the same absolute axis, as the ball joints allow for some variation.

Yep;

The eccentric ball joint shafts could probably make up small differences between the BJ axis on the two torsion arms.

Thanks

[ProctorSilex]

Awesome! I'm jealous.