Advice needed - Mendeola vs Traditional type 1 suspension.

[saltgrinder]

??? Anything

[FJCamper]

Hi Kevin,

We have two Florida events (Historic Sportscar Racing) coming up, Daytona 01-03 November, and Sebring 01-04 December.

We'll be running our balljoint/IRS Ghia there, 1600cc sprint racer.

One form of test is to have a Type 1 IRS chassis there with with your front end that our driver (I don't drive -- I just crew chief) could track test. We'd perfer a Ghia, but a 356 kit car (with a good rollbar) would work and probably be more photogenic. I'd have a hard time getting a Bug past HSR management.

The only thing we'd ask, to even the playing field, is the Ghia or 356 have street-legal 185x15 tires. Any kind of engine would be okay, as we're driving the cars for feel, not max speed.

I am no suspension engineer, but I was with one national championship SCCA Showroom Stock team for a few seasons (and yes, we tweaked those suspensions), the now belated Brumos Porsche out of Jacksonville in our 1970's glory days, and the Frank Williams F1 team just before they hired Senna.

I want your suspension to work so I prejudiced in your favor.

Getting some good video at Daytona or Sebring should be useful for your own advertising.

Oh, the white car in the old Barber video you took as a Nissan was a BMW 318, just a four cylinder. He fell out for some reason. The video is poor quality. The car Barret had to run down and beat was a 325 6-cyl on race tires.

Our Ghia was in 165x15 Michelin XAS tires.

Here's one minute of a spring event at Road Atlanta in which we take down two BRE Datsun 510's. If you are old enough to remember those cars you know what passing the two of them means. And, the video shows a bit about our front suspension action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tng5ReSc2wY (corrected link)


FJC

[H2OSB]

Frank--

You kinda Rickrolled us with that video. I NOT sure you meant to attach that particular video. Perhaps you got some numbers mixed up on your link?

[H2OSB]

Re the Mendeola suspension...Why won't you guys do some kind of documented testing? You've been asked many times over the years and STILL nothing. I'm certain, were you to prove your claims, you would sell more front suspensions than you could build. Many of us out here would love something to improve on the already pretty good factory suspension, however, for how much you're asking, it needs to have documentation.

johnL (aka H2OSB)
www.superbeetlesonly.com

[FJCamper]

Sorry guys,

I can't even explain the video mixup. The correct link has been posted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tng5ReSc2wY

[Jadewombat]

Re the Mendeola suspension...Why won't you guys do some kind of documented testing? You've been asked many times over the years and STILL nothing. I'm certain, were you to prove your claims, you would sell more front suspensions than you could build. Many of us out here would love something to improve on the already pretty good factory suspension, however, for how much you're asking, it needs to have documentation.

johnL (aka H2OSB)
http://www.superbeetlesonly.com

Yeah, what he said.

[Jadewombat]

Yeah, what he said. Any tests?

[FJCamper]

Hi Kevin,

No Sentra's in that old video. All Bimmers. The white one Barret (I'm not the driver) finally passes in the dip was a six-cyl. on racing tires.

Now, before anyone reading thinks CoolRydes and us at RetroRacing are in some kind of spat, full disclosure is we're not. We recently installed a Coolrydes aluminum master cylinder in our LeMons Bug and it solved a big problem.

My point is I'll bet Kevin & Co. would sell more front ends if they had a direct comparison test on record.

I think I could arrange the publicity with Hot VW's, and a test at some southeast track, such as Barber, Road Atlanta, Sebring or Daytona.

CoolRydes would provide an IRS Ghia with their front end.

FJC

[H2OSB]

DEW EET!!!! Been waiting for this for years.

H2OSB

[Bugaroo]

I’m new to the VW scene. But like everyone else here, I would love to see a comparison. I own my own business, so I understand and shop by proof of concept. We have to perform the horse and pony show on occasion for different clients. Before I drop a few thousand dollars in your suspension (front and rear), plus various other parts needed to get my ride road race ready, I really want to see a you put it out there. A type 1 race prepped factory suspension vs. your race prepped version.

You’ve been in business long enough, there’s really no excuse in not either having done this yourselves, or having a client’s ride run a course. Throw in the racing tires and track fees, and I’m sure you’ll get some great publicity for cheap.

No disrespect or hate intended. I’m ready to drop some cash in the spring, and would like to see proof of concept, not an engineering study. That’s a lot of cash...

[DORIGTT]

One demonstration would kill all conversation once and for all.

I'm sure a successful outcome would result in more folks scrounging up the money to buy one because it works / is proven.

[Evil_Fiz]

After spending some time educating myself on suspension and steering matters, I have some questions about your statements above.

... lastly we have a built in and tuned sway bar.

What vehicle is this tuned for, a Beetle, a Karmann Ghia, or a Speedster replica? What engine/trans combination? What weight distribution?

...As for the front, we build our own zero scrub spindles...

I interpret "zero scrub" to be zero scrub radius. What wheel width, offset, and tire diameter is this number based on?

...We have figured in things like "CG" (center of gravity) "RC" (roll centers), anti dive, and much more...

What vehicle was used to calculate the "CG" and "RC" numbers you based your design on?

...our front spindles our fully TIG welded and take over 3 hours a pair to complete. Ask yourself, "why would we spend this much time on a part, if it would not work any better then a stock spindle?"

How is a "Safety" and "Best fabrication Practice" (Fully welded spindles) a benefit over the original German built spindles that were built to similar "Safe" standards?

...A stock spindle will cause nearly 100% scrub in the front wheels.

Please elaborate on this claim. 100% of what? As I understand it, Scrub is measured in deviation from an intersection of the SAI and wheel center line at the road surface, i.e. Zero scrub = SAI and WCL meet at the road.

...We have a shop demo beetle that we have been trying to get time to go out and video so that others can see the advantages of our suspension kits.

Do you have an ETA on when this comparison will take place? It has been promised for quite some time.

With our suspension we were able to also improve braking with shock valveing allowing the car to transfer weight.

Do you have comparative testing data you would be willing to share?

I, and many others, would love for all you claims to be irrefutably confirmed via impartial testing. You still have time to win me as a customer, but not long.

Cheers,
Emil

[Racer156]

Hello,

Sorry to resurect this post but I’m having some of the same questions for a slightly different application. I’m currently planning a build for a 73 super beetle. It’s a weekend /track day driver. I’ve always gone for mild road race set ups in my cars and really like the mendola rear irs kit. It actually seems like a good deal price wise considering what you would pay separately for the 944 arms, Käfer brace, uniball(or whatever the thing is called that eliminates the rear torsion bars), adjustable plates, sway bars and coil overs. My only issue is really what to do with the front. Unfortunately most of the sites that deal with super beetle road racing, at least for parts, is in German. From pics on the net it looks like the KW Coilovers are the main adjustable Coilover option for 1303s. Not my car but similar to what the front suspension set up will be:
https://pin.it/o6gixosg4gj5bb

My problem in the front is I don’t have any info on the rest of the set up like steering damper/swap bar/brakes. Also I wind up with an extra set of Coilovers since the mendola kits does not come without them and the KWs don’t sell front only ......

I assume the advantage of the mendola kit for the front of supers is that it shortens the height for kit cars. Does anyone think there would be a big advantage over the set up in the pic?

Anyway, I guess my question is the set up of KWs in the front and mendola irs in the back a reasonable set up for a part time track day car? Anyone know of an option where I don’t have an extra set of rear Coilovers at the end of the day? Let me know.

Thanks.