'71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

For road racing, autocrossing, or just taking that curve in style. Oh yea, and stopping!
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Jadewombat
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by Jadewombat » Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:50 pm

ChadH wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:16 pm

and welding upside down really sucks.
Yes, it does. You're using MIG or flux I assume? For overhead I do "C"s starting at the top and working my way down the seam. This keeps the puddle where you want it instead of dripping down on you.

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ChadH
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by ChadH » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:31 pm

Frame horn supports done.

The top supports tie into the bottom of the rearmost cage. From the side, they almost makes a straight line with the rear cage supports. I think this will transfer a lot of the force directly to the cage.

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Note how there's not the typical "kafer bar" ties to the shock towers. All the support happens above the parcel shelf. The top of the shock towers also tie into the cage.

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Last edited by ChadH on Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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kangaboy
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by kangaboy » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:15 am

ChadH wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:31 pm
Frame horn supports done.
Looks awesome dude!
Did you double check the clearance on the braces to the starter? I know there were a couple guys that had issues with that on some of the bolt on kits.
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
My Megasquirt Turbo Build

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ChadH
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by ChadH » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:06 am

kangaboy wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:15 am
ChadH wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:31 pm
Frame horn supports done.
Looks awesome dude!
Did you double check the clearance on the braces to the starter? I know there were a couple guys that had issues with that on some of the bolt on kits.
I did check I made that mistake on bracing the horns on a Thing I did years ago though. It's one of those silly lessons learned from experience.

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:03 am

Chad, looks pretty ding dang good! Impressed! You did double/back up each join very well.

I guess the next step is to learn how not to need it 8) ; at least that has been my goal.

Lee

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ChadH
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by ChadH » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:16 pm

Pedals are in - mostly.

On the first attempt, I tried to keep it simple, but the angle of the whole assembly made the pedals sit too low, and the the swing angle was horrid.

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So I had to step up my game, and get serious with a whole pedal assembly subframe.

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Clearance is incredibly tight, but it works. Honestly, I got a little lucky that it fits.

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The end result is pretty good geomety. The pedals are right on the ball of my foot, with my heal on the floorboard. I actually have the capabilty to adjust the assembly back/forth - up/down, by sliding it on the rails, but I think its good where it is.

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I also started to put togeather the gas pedal. It's still a work in progress....
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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:05 pm

Having problems with posting tonight. This is the 5th or 6th try at this.

Before you finalize the hanging pedal throttle pedal I would try making a mockup of a floor mounted pedal assembly. There are advantages to both but for heal and toe fancy foot work be sure of the options you have and are comfortable with. The floor mounted depends on how much you can point your toes with the hanging pedals they can allow you to hit the gas too hard (kind of like the spoon pedals we had years ago). WV also had a floor mounted pedal with a wheel on it. Styles do come and go just like clothes and what is hot in cars at any one time. All in all it ends up being what you are comfortable with.

Also make the pedal pads like the non-skid ones you have on your pedal assy.

Lee

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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:42 am

Measure the distance behind the brake pedal the top of the gas pedal is on your family car. I'm not sure just what the standard measurement is but that distance behind the brake pedal would be a starting point for heel and toe driving (http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving/driving_pedals Also look at the "heel and toe"driving section Try this and about half way down is an interesting statement: https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18453) but I did temp mount mine (the narrow VW front floor more or less dictated by the main pedal assy which, in turn, more or less dictated the throttle's location (the tube through the tunnel was also a dictator). Once roughly located and temp installed (my aftermarket, floor mounted, pedal would sit upright by itself but there is also the option of double backed tape) then sit in the car and practice the heel and toe movement to adjust to the final location. Even in the sand where I ride heel and toe is just as necessary as it is in full out racing... maybe even more so at times especially when double clutching down gears (into first on a steep dune when you run out of gear/power is the main reason).

As a side note I did not locate the gas pedal in one sitting as one changes a bit by seat location, posture, being tired or not and other factors. I located, move to work on an other area, then came back and checked again. I even had the tall and short out of our group sit in the buggy and see out if felt to them; this was a seat and pedal location fitment check. I found that this ended up narrowing (no pun intended) the location a bit until a comfort and working location was found. Not sure how the next owner is going to feel.

The distance between the stock brake pedal and the trans hump is so tight especially with the wide toe shoes available now days; I finally found a pair of lightweight, narrow toe indoor track shoes to use when driving. I did a search to post and indoor track shoes sure have changed. They used to be fairly smooth front soles and almost no heel (you run on your toes) and were narrow to fit the foot tight in comfort, now days I got the impression that indoor track shoes sure have changed. Those indoor track shoes that I have are getting harder and harder to find but a good score when found.

Lee

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ChadH
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by ChadH » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:15 am

I think the biggest thing will be setting the throttle position relative to the brake pedal when it's depressed. I won't be able to do that until I get brakes on the car, and get a feel for not only free play in the pedal, but how far it moves under typical braking. I plan on making the throttle mount with a bit of fore-aft adjustment. I'm also incorporating adjustable travel stops and will have a few different cable pull locations. Both the clutch and brake pads can be moved left or right by one hole, and I'll make something similar for the throttle, to optimize the distance between all of them.

With shoes, I'm a big fan of Vibram Five-Fingers. https://us.vibram.com/shop/fivefingers/ They look goofy, but have nearly no sole and offer a lot of feel. I agree with you on clunky sneakers. The heavily padded and wide soles make me feel like my feet are numbed up with novocaine, and it's easy to catch the wrong pedal with their added width. Maybe I'll get some real driving shoes someday, but aside from being fire-retardant, I don't think they would offer a better feel.

I used to be pretty smooth on heal-toe when I had a NA Miata, and have had good success even with the stock VW pedals - with a roller. However, I've become a bit rusty, since my daily for the last 10 or so years have been various generations of Golf/GTI. The pedal position does not make heal toe easy. The brake sinks to far, and the throttle is too far away. It's possible to do it, but really have to contort your foot to be successful. As a result, I just don't do it with that car.

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:39 am

"I think the biggest thing will be setting the throttle position relative to the brake pedal when it's depressed. I won't be able to do that until I get brakes on the car, and get a feel for not only free play in the pedal, but how far it moves under typical braking."

Since the brake pedal travel is less of a problem with my venue than you would have to worry about; while I did consider it when writing but just didn't cover it.

The travel problem is not having your foot come in contact with the throttle when the brake pedal is depressed to the stop position. I don't normally (and yes there have been times) go off the brakes an onto the throttle in a true racing heel and toe manner. I do remember snagging a shoe on the brake pedal once or twice while on the street in normal driving in other cars so your point is well made.

Lee

H2OSB
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by H2OSB » Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:17 pm

Omg I cannot wear those 5 finger shoes. I can't stand the feel on the stuff betwixt my toes.

I use an old pair GForce racing mid tops.

H2OSB

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ChadH
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by ChadH » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:47 am

Getting close on the gas pedal. It just needs a return spring and an actual pedal - oh, and some paint to cover up the bubble gum.

It's kind of over-engineered with:
- Bronze bushings
- Adjustable travel stops on both ends of the swing.
- Adjustable length on the cable end of the arm, for fine tuning the cable pull.
- The whole unit can be adjusted fore-aft with regard to the brake/clutch.

I should be able to wrap it up today, and maybe get a dead-pedal installed (if there's room.)

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H2OSB
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by H2OSB » Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:26 am

Excellent craftsmanship. I would love hanging pedals in my autocross 1303

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ChadH
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by ChadH » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:40 pm

Pedal and return spring. The pedal is stainless, and all the holes are on the same pattern, so it can be moved around just about anywhere. I did kill a Harbor Freight step drill in the proccess. The whole mess is now apart and being painted.

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kangaboy
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by kangaboy » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:27 am

That looks awesome. Coming from someone with no type of race experience, but experience with both type of pedal designs (new and old VWs), what are the benefits to using hanging pedals instead of floor mounted ones?
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
My Megasquirt Turbo Build

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