'71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

For road racing, autocrossing, or just taking that curve in style. Oh yea, and stopping!
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ps2375
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by ps2375 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:41 pm

V-bands are such a nice way to go. I just did one on my exhaust this year, and will never go back to bolted flanges if i can help it.

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ChadH
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by ChadH » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:04 am

Tranny makeover:

* Rattlecan paint job
* CB Super Diff, with spider gears pilphered from another transmission
* HD side cover
* New gaskets, bushing and seals
* 100mm Thing CV flanges
* New throwout bearing and hardware
* Hydraulic clutch slave

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H2OSB
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by H2OSB » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:57 am

#$×÷ it, did you get that can of paint out of my garage?!

H2OSB

H2OSB
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by H2OSB » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:00 am

Did you referb the gearbox yourself? Is that something your typical shadetree could do? I always believed it took some special tools...that I do not possess.

H2OSB

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ChadH
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by ChadH » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:17 am

H2OSB wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:00 am
Did you referb the gearbox yourself? Is that something your typical shadetree could do? I always believed it took some special tools...that I do not possess.

H2OSB
I didn't get into the actual gearbox, just the diff. I'm rolling the dice that the transmission shifts OK. If not, most of what I've done can be moved to another transmission.

Everything I've read makes it seem like rebuilding the gearbox requires black magic and voodoo. When I get caught up on my project, I might mess around with pulling apart and re assembling one of my garbage transmissions, just to see what's involved.

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kangaboy
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Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by kangaboy » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:00 am

Just took a day a couple hours and read your thread from the beginning. Really top notch work, very inspiring. I have been looking into the local autocross scene and it seems like it could be fun. Keep up the good work, and looking forward to what your machine can do on the track. I've always had a soft spot in the heart for the supers. Had a 73 as my first car when I was 16.
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
My Megasquirt Turbo Build

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ChadH
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by ChadH » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:23 pm

kangaboy wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:00 am
Just took a day a couple hours and read your thread from the beginning. Really top notch work, very inspiring. I have been looking into the local autocross scene and it seems like it could be fun. Keep up the good work, and looking forward to what your machine can do on the track. I've always had a soft spot in the heart for the supers. Had a 73 as my first car when I was 16.
Slow reply...If you currently have any car semi sporty, just go and give it a try - or at least go and watch. It's low pressure..go tear it up. No one cares if you're fast or slow.

St. Louis looks like it has a good SCCA region. In fact, they put on the Solo Nationals in Lincoln (September.) Top autocrossers drive from all over the county to attend that. Go watch, if you have the time. You'll see some awesome cars and drivers. I with I had the time to drive out there.
http://www.stlsolo.org/

On to - NUTSERT. Just got one, and tried it. My new favorate tool!

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ChadH
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by ChadH » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:27 am

Finally..back to "Handling" related stuff. It's been a year since I even looked at the chassis. Up next is seam weld the frame horns, "kafer bar" type triangulation to the cage, and solid mid-mount for the transmission.

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kangaboy
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by kangaboy » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:52 pm

I'm not really down with the solid mounts, but I'm interested to see what you do for a kafer bar. You thinking rear sway bar as well? Currently I have nothing but new stock mounts.
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
My Megasquirt Turbo Build

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petew
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by petew » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:27 am

Home made triangulation is easy. Don't throw lots of cash at it. Re solid mounts, I'd rethink that. Berg style trans mount will do the same and save your nose cone. Also means the odd spin on the streets isn't deafening. ;)

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:10 am

As you probably know I am fighting the Truss/Kaffer/traction bar on my buggy. If you are going to abuse your car such as auto crossing, getting with it going through the gears or off-roading... of any kind then I would ignore the sound traveling up the chassis and (less to the body due to the rubber pan to body gasket (you might get some back via the bolts) and go with solid mounts.

Welding the seams on the trans mounts and the front shock towers is a very good idea! Also, check the inside of the front shock towers for rust or a collection of "stuff".

Remember, the torsion assembly is a "single-ized unit" where the trans mounts and shock mounts also attach directly to it. Any dancing of the mounts via loading of the cantilevered engine attached to the transaxle, whether it is being up and/or down, (soft mounts can play havoc in the next possibilities) side to side , circular or figure 8 movements, are going to be pretty much kept internal to the torsion assembly. As I just said: stock "rubberize" sound deadening mounts can exacerbate the problem.

The torsion assembly is connected to the pan where the tunnel meets the torsion assy. Probably not the strongest place when the engine which is mounted on the trans and usually not anywhere else at least in a stack bug. The outboard mounts of the torsion assembly attach to the pan are probably OK for freeway driving but were not designed for the abuse we give them; they are known to be a weak spot.

Look closely, the commercial Truss/Kaffer/traction bars don't really fix the problem as their whole unit are still tied directly to the torsion assembly; even the Mendola unit, with its additional tie to the IRS trailing arm pivot, is still captured only within the torsion assembly. The crosspiece between the shock towers can flex and have the potential to do some movement/flexing of the shock towers as the Pickle forks are doing their dance of death.

Be careful with the triangulation as too much or too little can negate what you are trying to do. Remember, it is also a support for the trans and engine as it locks things together.

Somehow, tie the body or cage into the mix if you can.

Lee

My opinion is worth slightly less than you paid for it!

H2OSB
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by H2OSB » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:32 pm

I think your car will be a couple levels past mine, but I'm going Mendeola Kafer cup bar, bolt on mid-mount from Aircooled.net and a padded trans strap. I'm also converting the trans mounts to the earlier style then using the CBP Rhino mounts. In addition to all that, since I'm running a T4, I'll have the rear engine mount that ties to the bumper brackets. I can't imagine having much movement back there.

H2OSB

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:55 pm

"I think your car will be a couple levels past mine.."

I doubt it but it sounds like you already have a plan so stick with it.

Mine is a sand dune cruiser not a beat-'em-up ride. Riding behind open back cars you can see a lot of things that make you go :shock: :shock: :shock: ! I used to belong to a non-VW car club some of who's members did auto cross and others who did TSD and old time closed course rallying. Even back then they were kind of hard on things.

Lee

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ChadH
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by ChadH » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:16 pm

Seams welded, mid-mount installed, nosecone mount cut off. For y'all worried about solid mounts, don't forget, this is a trailered car, and I only have to put up with the racket and vibration for 60-seconds at a time. :wink:

Welds are not pretty, and welding upside down really sucks. Having a junk tranny case makes mocking things up really easy. It's super light with no guts.

Tomorrow: triangles.

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ChadH
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by ChadH » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:56 pm

Ol'fogasaurus wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:10 am
As you probably know I am fighting the Truss/Kaffer/traction bar on my buggy. If you are going to abuse your car such as auto crossing, getting with it going through the gears or off-roading... of any kind then I would ignore the sound traveling up the chassis and (less to the body due to the rubber pan to body gasket (you might get some back via the bolts) and go with solid mounts.

Welding the seams on the trans mounts and the front shock towers is a very good idea! Also, check the inside of the front shock towers for rust or a collection of "stuff".

Remember, the torsion assembly is a "single-ized unit" where the trans mounts and shock mounts also attach directly to it. Any dancing of the mounts via loading of the cantilevered engine attached to the transaxle, whether it is being up and/or down, (soft mounts can play havoc in the next possibilities) side to side , circular or figure 8 movements, are going to be pretty much kept internal to the torsion assembly. As I just said: stock "rubberize" sound deadening mounts can exacerbate the problem.

The torsion assembly is connected to the pan where the tunnel meets the torsion assy. Probably not the strongest place when the engine which is mounted on the trans and usually not anywhere else at least in a stack bug. The outboard mounts of the torsion assembly attach to the pan are probably OK for freeway driving but were not designed for the abuse we give them; they are known to be a weak spot.

Look closely, the commercial Truss/Kaffer/traction bars don't really fix the problem as their whole unit are still tied directly to the torsion assembly; even the Mendola unit, with its additional tie to the IRS trailing arm pivot, is still captured only within the torsion assembly. The crosspiece between the shock towers can flex and have the potential to do some movement/flexing of the shock towers as the Pickle forks are doing their dance of death.

Be careful with the triangulation as too much or too little can negate what you are trying to do. Remember, it is also a support for the trans and engine as it locks things together.

Somehow, tie the body or cage into the mix if you can.

Lee

My opinion is worth slightly less than you paid for it!
I'm with you...the triangulation I plan will tie to the cage, not the shock towers. I also have a place where the top of the shock towers will tie into the cage too. What I'm talking about will make more sence after I get it done and take pictures.

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