'71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

For road racing, autocrossing, or just taking that curve in style. Oh yea, and stopping!
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ChadH
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by ChadH » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:57 am

I don't think there's any advantage to hanging pedals, in of itself. I did all of this so I could have a dual M/c brake to easily adjust bias, and have a hydraulic clutch. The whole throttle ordeal is simply because space is tight, and there's not off-the-shelf pedal that works in the tight space.

Scope Creep :P

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:18 am

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I went at it a bit differently and kept the floor mounted position. Since the hood on my black buggy does not come off I was limited to this.
reservoir_mounts.jpg
very_roomy.jpg
This is a friend's version of hanging pedals. Since his hood can be removed for access this is more of a good way to go.

Lee

Did you know that floor mounted pedals can easily be changed to hanging pedals just by turning things over on the mounting body?
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ChadH
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by ChadH » Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:12 pm

Seat mounts are in. I could stand a little more leg room I can move the seats back another 1/2", and maybe the pedals foward a little. I forgot how small these cars are, untill trying to fit everything in.

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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:28 pm

Looks good!

As far as the additional foot room goes now you are seeing some of the problems I have because of lowered seating and pedal location. One of the reasons I posted the pix with the bell crank operated reversed MCs. Besides the buggy I have seen them on a Baja but doing so, as I remember, also required moving things around in and under the dash.

Lee

Bruce2
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by Bruce2 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:06 am

It's just personal preference.
Races have been won using both configurations.
There are many drivers who raced for years with hanging pedals. Then when they get into a VW, they just assume it has to be "fixed".

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:38 am

:lol:
Bruce2 wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:06 am
It's just personal preference.
Races have been won using both configurations.
There are many drivers who raced for years with hanging pedals.
Then when they get into a VW, they just assume it has to be "fixed".
:) :) :lol: So true! I wouldn't argue that statement a bit.

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ChadH
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by ChadH » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:37 pm

Momo steering wheel adapter, NRG quick release, and a junky chinese dished steering wheel. This all moves the wheel much farther back than stock, but ends up feeling good with the race seat position. I need to troll some classifieds for a new steering shaft housing though. The aluminum at the upper bearing is cracked, and doesn't hold the bearing tight.

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Now I'm revisiting relocation of the shifter. A Jamar shift box might work, but I'm trying to decide the best way to connect it to a shift rod. Either angle the whole shift box, and use one u-joint at the transmission, or use a u-joint at both ends. I think two is probably going to be the best way to go.

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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:33 pm

Chad, I think that is doable but the one thing: I would mock up first as the area around the vin number which, in most states you want to keep visible. I would also put a doubler on the flat part of the tunnel around any broaching to the tunnel you make. You should be OK but check first before you get too far into it.
11-21-06 005 rear tunnel copy.jpg
This isn't what you are doing but it might give you an idea or two. The is a bus trans into a bug with the shift rod above the tunnel. There are adjustable shift rod connections available but I made my own mainly because I was going to a shortened pan with a 80" wheel base and the shift rod had to be shortened anyway (I still have the original in the tunnel shorted shift rod somewhere).

The rear join here, as I remember, is the tail end of a stock shift rod end for the final connection. I used a nut that had been machined to partially slide in the shift rod end then the shaft was drilled and spot welded in place. The other end of the long shift rod had the bolt machined to fit insice then welded to it along with an additional jam nut.

In front I used a shift box designed for a rail but nothing says you can't build one that sits higher or add material to the rail shift box like you have shown. You will need the nylon bushing so the box may have to be tilted or the bushing connector moved slightly down and tilted. You will need a universal to keep the angles of the front part of the shift rod to work with the stock shifter' for comfort I think otherwise I think the shift pattern felt in the shifter itself might be awkward.

The only other draw back I see might be the universals and their angle limitations... if any.

Have fun with this one.

Lee
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ChadH
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by ChadH » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:38 am

I'm not too worried about cutting through the VIN. I bought the car with no title, and it won't be registered - just trailered. My plan is just to slot up through the tunnel until I determine where the rod needs to be, then weld some plate behind the slot, so just the hole for shift rod is left.

I think you're right that the angled box might be awkward. U-joint angles should be OK, since the shift rod is only turning through a fraction of a rotation.

I think this is a case of - I just need to buy the box and play around with it. I understand they have a stock throw, so I'll probably want to cut down the shaft and get a short throw that way.

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:42 am

Something to think about: In stock form your shifter pulls with a slight arc in it's throw (handle length and fixed pivot position) but, for your arm the feel is basically the straight line movement. If you tilt the shifter box to a forward or aft angle then your arm will now have to push and pull at the same angle the shifter box is set at so as that angle of tilt changes it will be more and more noticeable and could feel/be very awkward.

If you tilt the box your arm will have to get used to "pulling down" or "pushing up" motion depending on the gear your going for. Among other things, this also might induce your arm/elbow to interfere with the seat you are using; e.g., a wrap-around back bucket seat with a large radius in the join between the "butt and back" for an example.

Distances front to rear shifter locations are also predicated on the seat height and location. I'm playing with my turning brake location and handle length due to the 6" potential slide of the seat mount because the people in our group have such height differences making the useful seating position for each change so much.

They do make short throw shifters but be careful here as some of them have a throw measured in portions of an inch between gears and that includes the neutral position. :roll: :lol:

I think going to the universals is probably the best of several fixes I can think of.

Lee

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ChadH
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by ChadH » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:12 pm

Passenger, adjustable, grab handle.

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And..a problem I hadn't anticipated. With race harnesses installed, by wife wouldn't be able to reach switches on the dash. Gotta think about how to fix this. Maybe a center switch box near the planned shift box...

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Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:49 pm

AKA a panic bar! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :twisted:

Lee

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petew
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by petew » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:25 am

Send your wife off to the salon to get some longer nails. 😉

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:39 am

Panic switch.jpg
Chad... if that is the ignition/panic switch then looks to be waaaaaaay too close to the passenger! :roll: :lol: I've had two passengers panic; e.g., come unglued and both times were when I was coming down a short and not very steep dune face. Its funny how one's vocabulary can change in a panic mode and hands go reaching for things out of their grasp. Never again! :wink:
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ChadH
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Re: '71 Super Beetle Autocross Build

Post by ChadH » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:13 am

petew wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:25 am
Send your wife off to the salon to get some longer nails. 😉
We jokingly talked about that. Or getting her one of these :P
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Honestly, she probably won't race the car "much", We've been racing her BRZ, and she'll continue to race that car. Mostly, it'll be me and my oldest kid, and we can reach fine. I just don't want to prohibit her from being able to drive the car.

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