Drop spindle questions

[ps2375]

Looks very nice! A "California Tilt" is almost always appreciated looks wise; e.g., not too much and not too little.

Thanks, I'm pretty happy with it. Now the sump and exhaust are just that much further from the ground. I've never had any issues with the sump getting close to touching as I has Bus snubbers, but a couple of driveways have gotten to the bend at the collector.

[ps2375]

So, now that I've driven it some, I've noticed that I have some tire rub on upper fender lip during braking. Is there a way to increase the pre-load on torsion leaves to perhaps raise the front a bit and to reduce dive under braking? I've also noticed that the wheels are not equally centered under the fenders, one side has more poke than the other, is this a case of the beam not centered on frame head or the case of manufacturing tolerances or the fact that is is a nearly 50 yr old car? Looking thru my Bently manual, ride height is not addressed for the front suspension.

Or do I need to change the leafs and/or narrow the beam some, which would mean additional work/parts for sway and leafs...it never ends.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

To raise the front end is going to take away some from the dropped spindles.

Options:

Add adjusters to the beam. Warning: the instructions in the kits (one for the top and one for the bottom axle tubes) cover both K&L and BJ. The first think it says is to have someone who has done it before do it for you. If you take the online sway-a-way instructions/the instructions that come in the kit and read them over several times plus marking out the instructions that are for the other type of beam than you are working on... it can be done by a novice. I documented it in a beam build and I did get caught in the instructions for both types of beams. Big differences in the kits.

Are your tires/rims too wide" If so then the options are narrowing the beam or changing over to different off-set rims.

I think it was mentioned that dropped spindles will set the rotating assembly outboard some; probably enough in this case to get you in to fender paint replacement.

[ps2375]

Yes, it was mentioned that the track would be a bit wider, the drop of the spindles is 2 1/2", and I got all of that if not more. A little rise in ride height wouldn't hurt my feelings, I'm not a fan of the slammed look nor it's lack of utility on any vehicle. I'm thinking I will attempt to center the beam under the fenders, if there is any movement there and then possibly do a selective narrowing of the beam. Any additional increase in spring rates due to shortened leafs will not be an issue to me.
The wheels are a Gurney look-a-like that have been on the car since about 1974 or so and are a 5 1/2" wide I think, I haven't had tires off of rims yet to measure them and they have no markings. And the tires are a 185/65/15, so it'll be hard to go any narrower and still keep the handling I want from it.

[Chip Birks]

You could go shorter on the tire. Your beam can't really move side to side. More likely than not, the body is out of shape up front due to prior damage. Narrowing is probably your best option.

[ps2375]

Near as I can tell, the fenders are OG and there has been no panel replacement up front, so I'm guessing manufacturing variations. And after talking with a friend who has narrowed some beams in the past, that is the way I'll most likely be going, and taking it out just outside of the mounts to allow me to get the same tuck for both sides. And adjusters might be in the future to raise and not lower the front, as it is at my perfect height right now.

[ps2375]

Can a sway bar be cut and welded to be narrowed?

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Think of a Sway bar as a fancy bent torsional spring that ties the two sides of the suspension together so they can support each other. I have heard of cut and weld but I am suspicious of it mainly because you are heating the springs to a temperature where you can take the temper out so, in my opinion, then you just have a piece of bent metal.

Lee

[ps2375]

Been searching and reading about it, there are those that go along with your thoughts and there are others that have done it with seeming success on much larger vehicles than ours.

[Marc]

When I built a race car with a wider track width none of the swaybars we had to work with would fit so I was resigned to having one made. Took an existing one and cut it in half, inserted the ends into a piece of tubing and welded them in at the desired length to make a template for the spring shop. Time & budget issues interceded and that got moved to the bottom of the priority list so we started the season with the "spliced" bar still in place...it worked fine and didn't break, ran it for a couple of seasons that way A simple butt-weld joining two pieces of spring steel would be almost certain to break, but by using a sleeve we got away with it. As it happened, the first piece laying around at the time which fit was square-tube, so each end received four small welds where the gaps existed - that may have helped as far as the effect on the metallurgy, compared to welding all the way `round.

Narrowed beams are all the rage these days but I've never been a fan. For one thing, look at the clearance between the inner sidewall and the edge of the body/pan when the steering's cranked to full lock. Anything cut out of the beam is going to reduce that, and the only remedy is to crank in the stops on the Pitman arm which widens your turning circle. Next, don't overlook the importance of the spring stack in holding the control arms into the beam (they're all that does, if breakage occurs the arm can slide out). When you shorten the beam you also need to chop the spring stack and redrill the grubscrew indents; their location determines the base camber setting so this must be done with some precision, and standard drill bits don't have the correct cut angle to match the end of the grubscrews - if they're mismatched it can cause the springs to break. Easier to grind the grubscrews than to redress a drill bit to the correct angle; drilling into spring steel isn't the easiest thing to do either.

On my own daily driver I have a stock-width Berg beam w/Avis adjusters and drop spindles. To fit wide wheels/tires I used wider fenders from CCC. I still had slight tire rub under hard braking/cornering; I could have just cranked up the ride height, but the rear was already set where I wanted it and I liked the stance so instead we got a set of Sway-A-Way's #6002 ~20% stiffer-than-stock leaves (their website catalog's undergoing maintenance at the moment so I can't quote current price but they should still be <$200). We used half a set, interleaving them with the stock springs, to get the desired results and my son put the rest in his Baja so we split the cost. Had only a slight effect on ride height but eliminated the tire rub under dive. Looking around on the 'net I found that CB performance sells some "Heavy Duty" torsion leaves (whatever that means) for $75 for all...P/N 6297. Those might be a cheaper alternative to the Sway-A-Ways if they're stiffer than 45yr-old stockers.

[Marc]

Near as I can tell, the fenders are OG and there has been no panel replacement up front, so I'm guessing manufacturing variations...

It's atypical for the variations to all stack up in the same direction, which is what it'd take to make a noticeable difference side-to-side. Don't overlook the effect of the camber eccentrics, that's where the biggest change could originate (short of say, a bent control arm). It's possible the backspace isn't identical on the rims, have you tried swapping them side-to-side?

[ps2375]

It's possible the backspace isn't identical on the rims, have you tried swapping them side-to-side?

No, I haven't, but I will. That never crossed my mind. I am also not a fan of narrowing the beam, but other than spending bunches of money, that's currently not in my budget, or going back to stock spindles, I don't have much choice. And I really like how stable it is right now at speeds above 70 mph, it's like the air is no longer getting under the car and moving it around.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

You would still have the potential to install adjusters to get just the right "tilt" if you did go back to stock spindles. I still like the looks of it though.

Lee

[ps2375]

The biggest advantage to the lowering spindles is that it keeps full suspension travel, where with adjusters, I don't believe that is the case.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I run a BJ front suspension w/adjusters on my off-road Manx style buggy. BJ beam travel is ~ (roughly) 6 inches of travel most of which is limited by the BJs themselves. Remember, your '69 is a BJ beam and BJ beams do not have suspension stops; they use the shocks themselves as stops. Us'n off-roaders usually add "hoop and pin" stops to control suspension travel. There are specialty BJs for Class 5 (I think that is the class) that have the slots on the BJ lengthened up some to get a bit more travel. I do not recommend them for the street for several reasons mostly because they are modified and MAY NOT BE AS STRONG.

Also, if you notice the lower BJ is pressed in from the center of the spindle not from underneath as the "Thing" (Type 181) has. Too much travel can pull the lower BJ loose. More than you wanted to know but for understanding I think it is important.

(for some reason the video won't work in the new site)]

This was taken after a body lift and adjusters added but it should give you some idea of how much travel there is in a BJ beam. No hook and pins in this beam.