Weird problem, relay stay on with key turn off
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Weird problem, relay stay on with key turn off
I pulled a wire from B+ to a relay 87 and the output 30 to the coil 15 and relay 86 to ground and key IGN to relay 85
This way the voltage supplied to the coil remains constant. I have done it to a few of my friends VW without any problem and they have all reported significant improved consistence power and torque.
BUT
I am having this weird problem with one particular friend car, when the starter key is switch OFF--the relay remains energized and engine remains running (will stop if the IGN wire to relay 85 is pulled out).
Is it possible that the starter key is faulty and leaking sufficient current to continue triggering the relay? Or that the relay remains ON due to back EMF?
Any suggestions.
This way the voltage supplied to the coil remains constant. I have done it to a few of my friends VW without any problem and they have all reported significant improved consistence power and torque.
BUT
I am having this weird problem with one particular friend car, when the starter key is switch OFF--the relay remains energized and engine remains running (will stop if the IGN wire to relay 85 is pulled out).
Is it possible that the starter key is faulty and leaking sufficient current to continue triggering the relay? Or that the relay remains ON due to back EMF?
Any suggestions.
- Dale M.
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Re: Weird problem, relay stay on with key turn off
If car has alternator, its probable getting feedback through idiot lamp and causing relay to stay energized.... Its called a "run on" situation and is common when using to large a lamp for idiot lamp.... Might try adding a diode in D+ lead from alternator to idiot lamp.... Could be a case where relay is also acting like a indicator lamp in run on situation....
Dale
Dale
"Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"
- xellex
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Re: Weird problem, relay stay on with key turn off
The same thing you describe happened to me also, and installing the diode fixed it
- Dale M.
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Re: Weird problem, relay stay on with key turn off
IF you are using a universal ignition switch with a ACC position you can move ALT idiot lamp wire to that position and it will solve the problem... Its just that ALT lamp will be on when you are in accessory mode just listening to the tunes or whatever....
Dale
Dale
"Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"
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Re: Weird problem, relay stay on with key turn off
Nope, the key switch have no ACC position. Will try the diode method first and will post the result.
Note:
Electrically wise, the diode can be place any where in between between D+ and the ALT idiot lamp as long as diode stripe faces D+
Is that correct
Note:
Electrically wise, the diode can be place any where in between between D+ and the ALT idiot lamp as long as diode stripe faces D+
Is that correct
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Re: Weird problem, relay stay on with key turn off
Xellex, can you tell us the reason for using a relay via the "key on" coil wire to activate the relay and supply B+ 14 volts to the coil?xellex wrote:The same thing you describe happened to me also, and installing the diode fixed it
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Re: Weird problem, relay stay on with key turn off
I bought a 10 pack of "Bosch" relays on ebay. They are Chinese copies. Two of them have coils that stick. Smack the relay case with something and they turn off. I threw them in the trash.
Steve
My Baja Build
My Baja Build
- Dale M.
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Re: Weird problem, relay stay on with key turn off
Concept is to take amp load off ignition switch, and if relay is placed near battery and coil it reduces voltage drop to coil, in the process the thinking is better performance...sagaboy wrote:Xellex, can you tell us the reason for using a relay via the "key on" coil wire to activate the relay and supply B+ 14 volts to the coil?xellex wrote:The same thing you describe happened to me also, and installing the diode fixed it
Dale
"Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"
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Re: Weird problem, relay stay on with key turn off
Well put!Dale M. wrote: Concept is to take amp load off ignition switch, and if relay is placed near battery and coil it reduces voltage drop to coil, in the process the thinking is better performance...
Dale
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Re: Weird problem, relay stay on with key turn off
Generally, I read somewhere that a contact point or electronic point will consume (not constant) about 4 amps based on spark plugs gap of 0.028 and a stock 12 volt 3 ohm internal resistor coil can produce about 16,000 volts.Dale M. wrote:...Concept is to take amp load off ignition switch, and if relay is placed near battery and coil it reduces voltage drop to coil, in the process the thinking is better performance...Dale
With a plug gap of 0.028 it only requires approximately 12,000 volts to fire it, therefore, tapping a constant 13.8 volt via a relay from B+ the stock coil produces 20,000 volts and we can increase the spark plug gap to 0.030 for better performance. I have done it and it certainly improved power and torque substantially.
- Dale M.
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Re: Weird problem, relay stay on with key turn off
This is all well and good, the theory part, but did you fix the problem....
Dale
Dale
"Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"
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Re: Weird problem, relay stay on with key turn off
Not yet! It's my friend car, its a "jink" with all kinds various weird electrical problems from 6.5volt to a 12 volt coil and all the way to failed tail light, I told him to place a "Bible" in the car before he comes over this Sunday. Will post the resultDale M. wrote:This is all well and good, the theory part, but did you fix the problem....Dale
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Re: Weird problem, relay stay on with key turn off
Found out the actual cause of the rear engine bay "add on coil relay" remaining energized after the starter key has been turned to the OFF position.
It is cause by the faulty starter key switch because when in the OFF position, power is still being supplied to the "add on coil relay" and when I "wriggle" the key a bit--the engine cut-off. So, it is unnecessary to add the diode.
It is cause by the faulty starter key switch because when in the OFF position, power is still being supplied to the "add on coil relay" and when I "wriggle" the key a bit--the engine cut-off. So, it is unnecessary to add the diode.
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Re: Weird problem, relay stay on with key turn off
If you play with cars for any length of time you are going to have to deal with a ignition switch going bad sooner or later. Just part of things that happen. Frustrating to track down isn't it.
Lee
Lee
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Re: Weird problem, relay stay on with key turn off
Actually, the key switch problem was accidentally discovered.
Before I re-connect the "add-on relay" and the "add-on" ALT diode, when the key switch was turn-off, the engine kept running and then when the key is "wriggle" in the holder did the engine cut-off--AH HA!!! We repeated that a couple of times to confirm the key switch problem.
Before I re-connect the "add-on relay" and the "add-on" ALT diode, when the key switch was turn-off, the engine kept running and then when the key is "wriggle" in the holder did the engine cut-off--AH HA!!! We repeated that a couple of times to confirm the key switch problem.