When I turn on lights, my KGhia loses power
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When I turn on lights, my KGhia loses power
I have installed a new alternator, coil, wires, battery and checked the wires from alt to battery. My problem is, when I turn the lights on it affects the engine performance( I lose power )...if the car is just at idle and I switch the lights on and hit the turn signal as well...the engine will turn off? Any suggestions?
- Marc
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Re: When I turn on lights, my KGhia loses power
At least a dozen possible answers come to mind, in order to prioritize them we'll need to know what year the car is.
Regardless of model year, though, the root problem appears to be high resistance in the primary power circuit ("B+" or "30") from the rear of the car to the dashboard area. The most common configuration brings power to the headlight switch first, with a jumper wire or two from there to the ignition switch or fusepanel...but as I said, there are several variations so it'll help a lot if you tell us what you're working with. Include all related history/details which come to mind, please.
Things to rule out in any configuration: the alternator must have a good ground path...check the ground strap that goes around the front trans mount, and the ground cable from the battery's negative post to the pan. A painted alternator pedestal can also be a problem. Check that the three main B+ wires (from alternator, to/from battery, and to front of car) have a clean solid connection. If the car originally had a generator, its regulator should not still be present.
Regardless of model year, though, the root problem appears to be high resistance in the primary power circuit ("B+" or "30") from the rear of the car to the dashboard area. The most common configuration brings power to the headlight switch first, with a jumper wire or two from there to the ignition switch or fusepanel...but as I said, there are several variations so it'll help a lot if you tell us what you're working with. Include all related history/details which come to mind, please.
Things to rule out in any configuration: the alternator must have a good ground path...check the ground strap that goes around the front trans mount, and the ground cable from the battery's negative post to the pan. A painted alternator pedestal can also be a problem. Check that the three main B+ wires (from alternator, to/from battery, and to front of car) have a clean solid connection. If the car originally had a generator, its regulator should not still be present.
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Re: When I turn on lights, my KGhia loses power
Thanks for your reply Marc!
My Ghia is 1974. I have done a lot of work to it but, electrical is quite challenging to me. I am running a 1776 with dual dellortos. I have replaced the large red wire that goes from the Alternator to the battery and will check the other wires as you pointed out. A year or so ago I replaced the ignition switch plug ( behind where the key goes ). I do remember about 6 months ago I was driving, and the car just went dead. Found out the problem was the wire connectors going into the new ignition switch plug (were not making good contact). This only happened once, but now I have this problem. Could that be a clue? Or perhaps, could it be a bad light switch? Also, one other thing...about 3 months ago my alternator belt busted...I was about 5 minutes away from my house, and drove it home, yes the engine was really hot when I got home as you know...but i think it was after this episode that I started with my current problem...which is why I replaced all the parts as mentioned originally(thinking that maybe the high heat got to the electrical components). As you can probably tell from my description I am not the best when it comes to wiring...but I would like to try and figure it out myself - of course with a little help as well. I really appreciate you time and insights! Thanks! - Alan
My Ghia is 1974. I have done a lot of work to it but, electrical is quite challenging to me. I am running a 1776 with dual dellortos. I have replaced the large red wire that goes from the Alternator to the battery and will check the other wires as you pointed out. A year or so ago I replaced the ignition switch plug ( behind where the key goes ). I do remember about 6 months ago I was driving, and the car just went dead. Found out the problem was the wire connectors going into the new ignition switch plug (were not making good contact). This only happened once, but now I have this problem. Could that be a clue? Or perhaps, could it be a bad light switch? Also, one other thing...about 3 months ago my alternator belt busted...I was about 5 minutes away from my house, and drove it home, yes the engine was really hot when I got home as you know...but i think it was after this episode that I started with my current problem...which is why I replaced all the parts as mentioned originally(thinking that maybe the high heat got to the electrical components). As you can probably tell from my description I am not the best when it comes to wiring...but I would like to try and figure it out myself - of course with a little help as well. I really appreciate you time and insights! Thanks! - Alan
- Marc
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Re: When I turn on lights, my KGhia loses power
Yes, a problem with the connector at the modular ignition switch is an extremely likely suspect. `72 through early `74 used a 111 905 865K ignition switch with a round body; from VIN 1442358022 it's 111 905 865L (or the analogous Rabbit part, 171 905 865) with a D-shaped bottom. You can buy a reproduction harness for the early switch (~$40) but I haven't seen one for the late setup. With either modular switch I like to have a spare in the glovebox - you can unplug the harness from the installed switch and use the "spare" one to run the car (it can be turned with a screwdriver) - the steering column lock still provides security. That can keep you on the road until it's convenient to tear things apart and install the new switch.alanh wrote:...My Ghia is 1974....about 6 months ago I was driving, and the car just went dead. Found out the problem was the wire connectors going into the new ignition switch plug (were not making good contact). This only happened once, but now I have this problem. Could that be a clue?...
On 1970 and older cars, the battery power comes to the headlight switch first - it's used a junction point for power headed to the ignition switch and to the fuse panel. All lighting (headlamps and park/taillamps) have power available to the switch at all times.
It gets more complicated on newer cars like yours, in order to make the headlights switch off with the key (and while you're cranking the starter). The power comes first to the fusepanel, which acts as the junction point for the ignition switch and the park/taillamp supply to the lighting switch. The headlamp section of the lighting switch has a separate power feed, called the "X" terminal, that comes from a set of auxiliary contacts added to the ignition switch.
So, although there's a separate set of contacts in the ignition switch for the headlamps, separate from the primary contacts which feed the ignition coil, both set of contacts get their power from the same source. If there's excess resistance anywhere in the path from the battery/alternator to the fusepanel, or from the fusepanel to the ignition switch, when you turn on the headlights the added current draw makes more power go up as heat from the resistance, dropping the voltage available for the ignition coil. The resistance could be anywhere on that path and have the same effect, but statistically on a `72-`74 `Ghia it's most likely to be at the modular plug to the ignition switch. If the tail and parking lamps also go dim when you turn on the headlamps, the fusepanel connections would be suspect - but if they don't, the problem is "downstream" of the fusepanel which again points to the ignition switch wiring.
You'll probably find dirty connections or a melted plug at the ignition switch. The switch itself could also be bad but this isn't their typical failure mode. It never hurts to have a spare one though, so you might want to check your VIN and pick one up before diving in. Expect to pay $15-$25 for one.
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Re: When I turn on lights, my KGhia loses power
Thanks Marc!
What can I say...you definitely know what your talking about! I will check what you have pointed out. Real good idea to keep a spare ignition switch on hand. I will keep you posted as to what I find. One thing, I did find a ground wire (from the alternator) that looked a little suspect. So i will replace and proceed onward.
Thanks again,
Alan
What can I say...you definitely know what your talking about! I will check what you have pointed out. Real good idea to keep a spare ignition switch on hand. I will keep you posted as to what I find. One thing, I did find a ground wire (from the alternator) that looked a little suspect. So i will replace and proceed onward.
Thanks again,
Alan
- Marc
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Re: When I turn on lights, my KGhia loses power
The alternator gets its ground through the contact of the housing and pedestal/strap. On generators and external-regulator alternators the little brown wire assures that the regulator has the same reference point even if it's not well-grounded to the body, but that's about all it does (it'd go up in smoke if it had to actually handle the current output of the alternator).
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Re: When I turn on lights, my KGhia loses power
Thanks. I replaced the wire ( that I thought was ground) and also checked my light switch. .. It seemed a little loose to the dashboard. I also went over all the connectors at the light switch as well. Now it seems to be working fine! With the car at idle, I turn on the lights even turn signal and radio all at once it does not affect the idle at all! I'm not sure exactly how the problem was solved but some how it is fixed, thanks for your help and advice ... I will keep an extra ignition switch as you recommend. Thanks again!
Alan
Alan
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Re: When I turn on lights, my KGhia loses power
Hi Marc,
What can I say but electrical can be really tough! I thought the problem was fixed, not so. At idle seemed fine, but out on the road the car would sputter and pop a bit with a definite loss in power right at the moment the light switch was turned on.
So I checked the connectors at the ignition switch ( as you recommended), noticed the female ends appeared a bit too wide - figuring that my car does vibrate a lot with a bigger engine and dual dellortos, perhaps they can get loose over time? - so with a very very small screw driver i closed the gap just enough to create a tighter fit with the switch itself.
So far problem solved...took the car out with lights and radio on with no loss in power.
Could it have just been that?
Anyways thanks again for your insights and time...would appreciate any comments you may have.
Alan
What can I say but electrical can be really tough! I thought the problem was fixed, not so. At idle seemed fine, but out on the road the car would sputter and pop a bit with a definite loss in power right at the moment the light switch was turned on.
So I checked the connectors at the ignition switch ( as you recommended), noticed the female ends appeared a bit too wide - figuring that my car does vibrate a lot with a bigger engine and dual dellortos, perhaps they can get loose over time? - so with a very very small screw driver i closed the gap just enough to create a tighter fit with the switch itself.
So far problem solved...took the car out with lights and radio on with no loss in power.
Could it have just been that?
Anyways thanks again for your insights and time...would appreciate any comments you may have.
Alan
- Dale M.
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Re: When I turn on lights, my KGhia loses power
While you are doing maintenance on connectors (slight crimp to increase tension) you might also want to clean connectors with a scotch bright pad and possible e very light coat of dialectic grease to prevent corrosion....
IF you find just increasing tension on connectors is not getting it get some good quality commercial brand (grade) connectors (no Chinese crap from local flaps) and replace them... Also the tools you use are important... The $5 crimpers from FLAPS is not the tool... spend a few dollars more and get a good pair of ratcheting crimpers with changeable heads for what ever type of connector you decide to use....
Dale
IF you find just increasing tension on connectors is not getting it get some good quality commercial brand (grade) connectors (no Chinese crap from local flaps) and replace them... Also the tools you use are important... The $5 crimpers from FLAPS is not the tool... spend a few dollars more and get a good pair of ratcheting crimpers with changeable heads for what ever type of connector you decide to use....
Dale
"Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"
- Dale M.
- Posts: 1673
- Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:09 am
Re: When I turn on lights, my KGhia loses power
While you are doing maintenance on connectors (slight crimp to increase tension) you might also want to clean connectors with a scotch bright pad and possible a very light coat of dialectic grease to prevent corrosion....
IF you find just increasing tension on connectors is not getting it get some good quality commercial brand (grade) connectors (no Chinese crap from local flaps) and replace them... Also the tools you use are important... The $5 crimpers from FLAPS is not the tool... spend a few dollars more and get a good pair of ratcheting crimpers with changeable heads for what ever type of connector you decide to use....
Dale
IF you find just increasing tension on connectors is not getting it get some good quality commercial brand (grade) connectors (no Chinese crap from local flaps) and replace them... Also the tools you use are important... The $5 crimpers from FLAPS is not the tool... spend a few dollars more and get a good pair of ratcheting crimpers with changeable heads for what ever type of connector you decide to use....
Dale
"Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster"
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Re: When I turn on lights, my KGhia loses power
Good advice on how to clean my connectors!
Will invest in a good pair of crimpers. Thanks Dale!
Alan
Will invest in a good pair of crimpers. Thanks Dale!
Alan