New Type 4 Trigger Wheel
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel
New ignition map, based on pile drivers map
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel
Slight adjustments, to see if it fixes the ping on de/accel.
AFR to match:
AFR to match:
1981 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia - air-cooled Type4 1970cc CV (hydraulic lifters, 42x36 valves, stock cam, microSquirt FI)
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI
1993 Ford F-250 XL LWB Extended Cab 7.3L IDI
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel
luftvagon wrote:Slight adjustments, to see if it fixes the ping on de/accel.
AFR to match:
Might try cranking on the MAP lag as an experiment, set to say ~30.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel
I run 19:1 >2600 RPM and =<83kpa.Rikard wrote:Is that a conservative ignition map? If so, I don't know what to call mineMy ignition map is actually pretty conservative IMHO, the only thing remotely weird about my setup is the 2L heads on a 1.8.
Do you run it really lean below 83kpa?
What is your idle advance?
Cheers
/rikard
Used to run 22:1 but the current WB setup stops at 20:1, so I cannot set 22:1 as a target anymore.
(if your VE table and dead time etc are right, whatever you target will be dead nuts on)
I ran another ~5 degrees advance @22:1.
Does wonders for CHT at cruise in 100++ degree weather.
Overcooling is an issue under ~70F.
My idle advance is variable to maintain RPM, but ~10 BTDC.
It is also subject to the cold advance, which ranges from +10 to -5, I use the full range, it is always active. like my WUE.
Luftvagon: Your best lean idle results were at 15.3:1?
Remember--- for best results, only the engine gets to vote as to what it likes.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel
Note: (putting here for lack of a better place to put it)
Noise filters:
I'm back to the 6/1 setup as the serp belt pulley on the crank for the AC took the wheels place, and I relocated the hall sensor back to the flywheel area sensor holder I made up.
This was not due to any fault of Marios bracket or wheel: will be used another day.
Using the provided Hall, had to jack pretty hard with the noise filter settings, sensor again needed to be <1/8" from FW, and the noise filter setup that worked was a bit different than what I used in the past, but seems to work flawlessly.
Basically the global filter is on (3) , the noise filters are OFF, and the tach period rejection + interrupt masking are ON., .3ms, 6% (I have an "extra" hole adjacent to the "proper" hole some sensors can pick up... The noise filter and using the correct trigger slope combination makes it invisible.
Noise filters:
I'm back to the 6/1 setup as the serp belt pulley on the crank for the AC took the wheels place, and I relocated the hall sensor back to the flywheel area sensor holder I made up.
This was not due to any fault of Marios bracket or wheel: will be used another day.
Using the provided Hall, had to jack pretty hard with the noise filter settings, sensor again needed to be <1/8" from FW, and the noise filter setup that worked was a bit different than what I used in the past, but seems to work flawlessly.
Basically the global filter is on (3) , the noise filters are OFF, and the tach period rejection + interrupt masking are ON., .3ms, 6% (I have an "extra" hole adjacent to the "proper" hole some sensors can pick up... The noise filter and using the correct trigger slope combination makes it invisible.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
- samcat
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel
Seen these in Mario's shop, and am interested in going down this route (with EFI to follow).. But how would this setup work on an upright converted T4 in a bug, using the DTM.
Thanks,
Sam
Thanks,
Sam
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel
Seamlessly.samcat wrote:Seen these in Mario's shop, and am interested in going down this route (with EFI to follow).. But how would this setup work on an upright converted T4 in a bug, using the DTM.
Thanks,
Sam
Mario has a very nice T4 crank trigger setup, should go behind most aluminum pulleys, might need a flat spot machined depending on pulley design, he may have other pulley options as well.
When he gets his "distributor wheel" version going (single missing tooth wheel, I'm using a 36-2 in a hacked 009, long story) you won't need the crank trigger to go sequential, it will be a drop-in and go. Will work w/MS2E or MS3.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
- samcat
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel
I saw that, very very interesting! Also bumped into the thread last night where you were building that up and it looks good.. Right up my street!Piledriver wrote:When he gets his "distributor wheel" version going (single missing tooth wheel, I'm using a 36-2 in a hacked 009, long story) you won't need the crank trigger to go sequential, it will be a drop-in and go. Will work w/MS2E or MS3.
Any ETA for the "distributor wheel" version?
To get spark only with the option of fuel in the future what would I need?
Got the following in my cart so far, but not really sure if its right..
Type 4 Crank Trigger Kit (60-2 / Extra Machining Required)
Mini Cam Sync V1.2
LS2 Dual Coil Package with Raw Connector W/ Package
MS3-Pro w/ 2 8' harnesses
I want the best I can do, if I am going to the trouble of fitting proper crank triggered ignition I want it to be the best/most accurate/most tunable it can be...
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel
I haven't seen the 60-2 wheel T4 setup, I tested the 36-1 wheel version for stock cooling.
The 36-1 wheel is reasonably small to fit behind a std size conversion pulley with a flat backside.
The mini cam sync is a very nice dual ball bearing supported piece.
You would have to ask Mario as to the way to go, he may have ready to roll conversion pulleys.
The 36-1 wheel is reasonably small to fit behind a std size conversion pulley with a flat backside.
The mini cam sync is a very nice dual ball bearing supported piece.
You would have to ask Mario as to the way to go, he may have ready to roll conversion pulleys.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
- samcat
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel
Okay, looking to start with spark only... Will move to full EFI later once I have got my head around spark only.
Will a TPS sensor be needed for spark? Guessing not.. but want to be sure.
Reason I ask is fitting a TPS sensor to my existing IDFs looks a bit of a pain, and when I go full efi the TB(s) will have a TPS.. Dont want to go through the pain if its not needed!
Will a TPS sensor be needed for spark? Guessing not.. but want to be sure.
Reason I ask is fitting a TPS sensor to my existing IDFs looks a bit of a pain, and when I go full efi the TB(s) will have a TPS.. Dont want to go through the pain if its not needed!
- MarioVelotta
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel
TPS isn't required for ignition, it's helpful so you are not only looking at the manifold vacuum to gauge engine load but not required.samcat wrote:Okay, looking to start with spark only... Will move to full EFI later once I have got my head around spark only.
Will a TPS sensor be needed for spark? Guessing not.. but want to be sure.
Reason I ask is fitting a TPS sensor to my existing IDFs looks a bit of a pain, and when I go full efi the TB(s) will have a TPS.. Dont want to go through the pain if its not needed!
For ignition you can get away with just a crank trigger, the manifold reference and your ignition coil or coils. That is enough info for the ECU to move the cursor around the ignition map
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel
You probably want to use the idle timing and correction tables rather than putting it in the main map, much smoother and a kick in the pants when the map timing kicks in when you tip in, set right its great for drivability, and you can set it to taste.
To trigger all the idle control goodness on a MS3 and perhaps use an IAC, a TPS or at least a (vanagon) stock-like idle switch is probably required.
I'm currently using a 3wire IAC off the Vanagon using the idle and VVT outputs. works well, much better than the 2 wire version ever did.
OTOH I just used a CIS warm up air valve for years. (has a heater and a bimetal strip, just feed it coil power)
The 2 or 3 wire VDO IAC makes a gentle buzz you can just hear with the key on and engine not running @99Hz. (factory spec was ~same)
Hardest part of using it is that it wants a 3/4"/19mm ID hose for feed air, the breather plumbing I have it run off of can't feed it in cold weather on startup/cold idle, looking to make an elegant large bore plumbing setup.
Of course if you have it on a Vanagon with the ~original plumbing it just fits.
You might consider using a MAF sensor later on and keeping all the factory air cleaner etc, just adapt it for the MAF.
The MS3 (and IIRC MS2E) MAF code is now completely rewritten and allegedly works quite well now.
To trigger all the idle control goodness on a MS3 and perhaps use an IAC, a TPS or at least a (vanagon) stock-like idle switch is probably required.
I'm currently using a 3wire IAC off the Vanagon using the idle and VVT outputs. works well, much better than the 2 wire version ever did.
OTOH I just used a CIS warm up air valve for years. (has a heater and a bimetal strip, just feed it coil power)
The 2 or 3 wire VDO IAC makes a gentle buzz you can just hear with the key on and engine not running @99Hz. (factory spec was ~same)
Hardest part of using it is that it wants a 3/4"/19mm ID hose for feed air, the breather plumbing I have it run off of can't feed it in cold weather on startup/cold idle, looking to make an elegant large bore plumbing setup.
Of course if you have it on a Vanagon with the ~original plumbing it just fits.
You might consider using a MAF sensor later on and keeping all the factory air cleaner etc, just adapt it for the MAF.
The MS3 (and IIRC MS2E) MAF code is now completely rewritten and allegedly works quite well now.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
- samcat
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel
Thanks all.
Doing uni work today, tomorrow all being well I will be working on the car.. Gotta wire up my LM-2. This will give me a chance to start gentle pondering of best way to proceed.
Currently engine bay looks like:
(with the exception of the linkage, that now a cable based solution)
Doing uni work today, tomorrow all being well I will be working on the car.. Gotta wire up my LM-2. This will give me a chance to start gentle pondering of best way to proceed.
Currently engine bay looks like:
(with the exception of the linkage, that now a cable based solution)
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Re: New Type 4 Trigger Wheel
Nice clean engine compartment SamCat.......looks nice.
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.