Mini Cam Sync

[subwoofer]

You can actually do either, twist or tweak in the offset, but the recommended sync tooth offset is 70-90 degrees as supposedly the ECU is less busy at that point in the cycle. (*probably doesn't matter on MS2extra/MS3 but it's still in the docs)

I think the reason is that at half way between compressions the crank acceleration is close to zero. This makes the missing tooth detection a lot more robust during cranking.

[Steve Arndt]

I have some pictures to share of the Redline Weber 24-1 drop in trigger wheel setup that is in the works.
These pics show the unit mounted in a lathe chuck for testing up to 6000 RPMs. A billet top cover is in the works to finish off the package when used for triggering only. It is also possible to use a rotor and single coil. The fitted sensor is an OEM Honda unit.








Here is a link to a datalog from a Redline ECU that was used during testing which demonstrate a clean wheel pattern decode and RPM trace up to ~6000 RPMs. (CSV spreadsheet file open in excel, plain text):

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B12q4Qf ... VdpcWg4YTg


I am now an authorized Redline supplier. PM me for details. I will be able to provide the product and support (ECU packages, sensors, wiring, IGNx coils)

[MarioVelotta]

Wow, not even your own thread! Not really for cam sync, but full sync. What is the price?

[Steve Arndt]

Wow, not even your own thread! Not really for cam sync, but full sync. What is the price?

I guess I could have started a new topic, but we would have had three threads at once on the same/similar topic then.

[Piledriver]

Wow, not even your own thread! Not really for cam sync, but full sync. What is the price?

I guess I could have started a new topic, but we would have had three threads at once on the same/similar topic then.

..There's a first time for everything, right?

[Redline Weber]

The chance for a MORE definite detection would exist if missing tooth was "moving" slower, in the area of compression.
Tooth timers in reality can "see" this effect, though it is "ruled out" due to MUCH less time change than a missing tooth or two missing teeth.
Knock Sensing is able to be seen by the tooth timers AND can be greater than TWO missing teeth.

NOW, A great topic, "where should missing tooth be located ? ", is something that can be described.
The choice referenced is the most accurate position, like splitting a hair, almost unmeasurable.

This choice is also described in the patent as 'best location" for an accurate Spark Instant.

The "missing tooth" location would NOT want to be in an area wherein a spark could be ordered.

Thus a choice of 66 degrees to 78 degrees is SO common, the reason is to fit most common engines without change between four/six/eight cylinders.

Lance

[Devastator]

Is that 6000 RPM engine speed or Dizzy speed, (3K)? Not many lathes turn 6K.

[Redline Weber]

Your observation is CORRECT, Gear Down engine speed=Lath speed of 3000 RPM.

Lance

[Camo]

The initial V1 will only be for a cam sync.

Research is already begun for V2 that will be a 12-1 trigger wheel. Full sequential will be possible from this version.

Hi Mario,

just reading back over this topic and as you know, I am one of the ones on the waiting list

Just want to confirm (due to my lack of knowledge) the V1 with single magnet pickup, is this type suitable for controlling sequential fuel injection. I have a crank angle pickup on my engine I am building, but just want to make sure what I am getting is right for my way of thinking.

Is the missing tooth wheel (12-1) type mini cam sync meant to be instead of fitting a crankshaft angle sensor.

Cheers, Kev

[Piledriver]

Yes, the 12-1 (or any suitable missing tooth wheel setup) can be used by itself at cam speed for full sequential, single sensor, MS2-extra and MS3. (not sure about MS1) Likely will also work with other EMS...

The current single tooth distributor speed unit is for use in addition to a crank wheel for sequential on MS1/2/3 or any other EMS that needs it. It works very well, and is nice and small.

[Camo]

Thanks for such a quick response. I agree they look nice and compact and that is why I went with Mario's setup. I bought one last year and I'm just waiting for these to be completed.

I have MS3 and as mentioned crank angle sensor. So in my case, I can use either the V1 or the V2 when completed. Good stuff and thanks for your help.

Kev

[foreverska]

Got the couple of changes made to the files with some upgrades and sent them off. I know the shop has some other big projects going right now, I don't know if they will be worked in between operations or if he is finishing the other things first.

Somewhere along the line I lost emailed updates to this thread but its good to see this post. I'm going into an interesting project pretty soon and it'd be nice to see the second run come out around the same time period that I finish it.

[Chip Birks]

I have the first of the new version installed as of about 12 hours ago, the car fully synced up within a couple turns of the engine and fired right up. This sensor replaced my open topped Vanagon distributor that I have run as my sync for a couple of years. Not the prettiest of engines. But it tends to do the job for which it was intended. Thanks Mario!

[Camo]

Excellent stuff Chip. When you say the car fully synced up within a couple turns, do you need to position the cam sync in a particular spot like a distributor so the injector timing is spot on. I guess that the pickup inside needs to be timed or very close to the sweet spot so fuel is injected at the right time.

Sorry for my lack of knowledge, I'm new to EFI and just starting to fit my engine up with MS3x and will also be going full sequential fuel and ignition.

Good to see that Mario has started sending out the orders, I am looking forward to fitting my new engine up with one.

Cheers, Kev

[Chip Birks]

As far as positioning goes, i just dropped it in and went. I may still dial it a little better in the future. I think i've heard that ms doesn't really care where the cam signal is, as long as it doesn't hit at the same time as the missing tooth signal on the crank. I guess that can confuse the computer a little. i am no expert here though.