How I replaced my L-jet fuel injector hoses

flaircraft
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How I replaced my L-jet fuel injector hoses

Post by flaircraft »

I just replaced the fuel injector hoses on my '81 Vanagon engine and thought I'd share some tips and tricks that I learned in the process. I apologize profusely for not having taken pictures for a proper write-up :(

I started by removing the injectors from the engine. I had suspected them of being clogged or dirty since the engine runs poorly when cold, so I decided to have them inspected. I took them (still attached to the fuel rails, although this wasn't necessary) to the local injector service shop and had them tested out. They actually performed flawlessly, with excellent spray patterns and they all flowed exactly the same amount. However, one of the injector fuel hoses leaked badly during the flow test. I figured if one hose was leaking, the others were probably in similar shape and would start leaking in the near future so I made the decision to go ahead and replace all the injector hoses (and all the rubber fuel lines in the engine compartment for that matter).

After reading a couple of posts on how to remove the crimped-on hose ends, I gathered my tools and the injectors and new parts, set them all on my workbench and had at it. Actually the workbench in this case was the kitchen table... don't tell my wife... Anyway, the tools I used were: Dremel with abrasive cutting blade (do yourself a favor and get the reinforced blades!), phillips and flathead screwdrivers, channel-lock and needlenose pliers, and an X-acto knife. Materials I had to buy were the injector hose (make sure it's fuel injection rated!) and special fuel injection hose clamps, which I found in the "Help!" section of the local auto parts store.

The next step was to remove the factory crimps from the injector hose. I cut them off with my dremel as close to the bottom of the crimp as I could, without cutting the injector body. I also discovered that you can't cut all the way around the crimp because the injector's electrical connector is in the way on one side of the hose. Fortunately I was able to rotate the hose crimp with some channel-lock pliers so I could cut all the way around it. Also I was careful not to cut through the hose and into the barbed end of the injector. I knew when I was at the right cutting depth when I just started to smell the burned rubber... After cutting all the way around the crimp I still couldn't get the top part of the crimp off the hose, so I cut a slit across the top part of the crimp and then grabbed it with my needlenose pliers to spread the metal apart. The top crimp pieces were then easily removed.

After removing the crimp pieces I tried to pull the hoses off. They would not come off even with "vigorous" pulling, twisting, pliers etc. They are really stuck onto the injector barbs. I ended up using my X-acto knife to slit the hoses along the length of the barbs, which made removal a snap. After removing the old hoses I was then able to pull off the bottom pieces of the crimps that were still left on the injectors. They came off with no trouble, the only thing that had been holding them on was the fact that the hoses were blocking them from coming off.

The rest of the process was straightforward, I cut new lengths of EFI rated fuel line to replace the old injector hoses and then clamped them onto the injectors with the EFI rated clamps. The whole process including tool gathering and head-scratching took about an hour for all 4 injectors.
member of the Bajas That Run Club

'72 Baja, "The Goblin" (old-skool, cut Baja)
'81 Vanagon aircooled (sold), was used as drivetrain donor for the Goblin
'71 Standard beetle with 500 inch Caddy engine and TH425 tranny "The Caddywagen"
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supaninja
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Re: How I replaced my L-jet fuel injector hoses

Post by supaninja »

You can get the expensive "fuel injection rated" 5/16" hose or you can just go to you local auto parts store and get the regular 5/16" fuel hose. The standard stuff is rated to 50 psi with a 150psi burst rating, L jet fuel pressure is just around 30psi so you'll be well within the limits. While your at it, you might as well replace all the soft lines. Al yes use the fuel injection clamps on everything.
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Piledriver
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Re: How I replaced my L-jet fuel injector hoses

Post by Piledriver »

The SAE30 R7 hose is NOT safe for the pressure side of any FI system. Period.

Just in case that wasn't perfectly clear...

The SAE30 R7 hose is NOT safe for the pressure side of any FI system. Period.

The hose must be able to deal with a plugged/stuck regulator, most fuel pumps can easily do >100PSI dead headed.
My 044 stalls at >180PSI.
50 PSI burst ??? That may hold for a few seconds.

Cheap SAE30R7 hose can be toast in a year, and is NOT intended for EFI systems...
which may be why they print "NOT INTENDED FOR FUEL INJECTION SYSTEMS" every 12" on R7 hose
.
Hint:They are probably trying to tell you something.

I suspect the same for the OE German line as well, I don't trust it any more than the R7.
(maybe less as you can't see if its starting to crack)

I confess to using the Gates R7 hose on the return side.

You should replace ALL the rubber hose on your Bus.
It's 30 years old...
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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supaninja
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Re: How I replaced my L-jet fuel injector hoses

Post by supaninja »

I disagree pile, as do most of the subject matter experts as well. That hose is rated to 150 bust and will hold up for quite some time if a regulator or return side clogs up. I have never heard of SAE30r7 failing on a L jet or D jet volkswagen.

No I have heard of plenty of horror stories of the braided German fuel injection hose cracking and leaking (can we say car-b-que?) from being dried out by the current ethanol blends.

The collective agreed coarse of action is to replace all the braided german stuff with the over the counter made in america sae30r7 standard fuel line.
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supaninja
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Re: How I replaced my L-jet fuel injector hoses

Post by supaninja »

So I pulled up the spec's on the sae30r7 again, burst rating is 250 psi http://www.goodyearep.com/ProductsDetail.aspx?id=10526, we are talking about ljet here, it's not rocket science. there is no way in hell a stock volkswagen pump or even my walbro will pressurize the line anywhere near that. BTW, most pumps have a pressure relief valve built into them, walbro's kick in around 85psi.

OP- here is a link to some http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+ ... 5/10002/-1
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Re: How I replaced my L-jet fuel injector hoses

Post by Piledriver »

I have seen generic R7 (NON FI) line falling apart after < a year in use.
I generously blame this on the 10% ethanol in ~all gasoline here.

I have yet to see that with FI (R9) hose, any brand.

If you or the "subject matter experts" want to run R7 low pressure carb fuel line on your EFI system, it's your car, bud.

R7 barely holds up sitting on the shelf, so please carry an extinguisher.
Or marshmallows. (They'd probably taste funny with the high pressure fed gasoline fire tho)
Last edited by Piledriver on Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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supaninja
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Re: How I replaced my L-jet fuel injector hoses

Post by supaninja »

It's safe for e85, and I have yet to hear that, link me to some facts about it r7 failing.

here's the fuel's r7 is designed for:

Leaded and unleaded gasoline, diesel fuel, gasoline blends of ethanol (E10), E-85 and sour gas.
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Piledriver
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Re: How I replaced my L-jet fuel injector hoses

Post by Piledriver »

I invite you to stick some Gates R7 in some biodiesel and see how that looks after a week.
(you'll need a spoon to get it back out, BTDT)

Diesel REQUIRES R9 or R10-- Even GASOLINE requires R10 for submerged pickup line.
Fuel will even make the outer casing of R9 turn to mush eventually.
R9 has an liner R7 doesn't. R10 has a different outer casing that holds up.

Perhaps we should disagree in another thread?
This is worth hashing out fully.

Interesting-- Goodyear rates their R7 as you say.(multifuel, but NOT immersion, and NOT FOR FUEL INJECTION)
Gates does NOT even rate their R7 for e85, diesel etc.
http://www.napabeltshose.com/images/Bar ... _Final.pdf

Here's a little paper Gates puts out explaining their position
http://www.gates.com/common/downloads/f ... %2030r9%27

I haven't found an equivalent document to the NAPA/Goodyear one for Gates.

You're correct that the "working pressure" of R7 is technically sufficient for D/L jet with the original pumps and with a correctly working system.
(no regulator rusted closed, working relief valve, sun and starts aligned correctly) but I'm not that much of an optimist.
There is a LOT more to it, esp. with modern fuels.
Last edited by Piledriver on Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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supaninja
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Re: How I replaced my L-jet fuel injector hoses

Post by supaninja »

this is my last post on the subject, you can start another thread but we are just going to go round and round.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... &ppt=C0222

according to oreilly's site the gate is rated the same as goodyear, which i believe is part of the requirements for the sae30r7 rating.
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Re: How I replaced my L-jet fuel injector hoses

Post by Piledriver »

supaninja wrote:this is my last post on the subject, you can start another thread but we are just going to go round and round.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... &ppt=C0222

according to oreilly's site the gate is rated the same as goodyear, which i believe is part of the requirements for the sae30r7 rating.
OK, according to the Gates/NAPA reference I linked to it isn't, and BOTH OF THEM say "NOT FOR USE IN FUEL INJECTED SYSTEMS" for some inexplicable reason.

Not all R7 hose is created equal... Not even all Gates R7 hose, apparently.

My position is still that using R7 on the pressure side of a FI system is an open invitation to a car-b-que.
(and using it ANYWHERE with modern fuels/additives is questionable, even on the return side)

For some bizarre reason ALL the hose manufacturers agree...

Steel line and short flex sections of R9 are CHEAP insurance.
R9 in't even that expensive if you can shop around.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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Vee Dub Nut
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Re: How I replaced my L-jet fuel injector hoses

Post by Vee Dub Nut »

Sorry to dredge this back up... but I went over to O'Reilly today to see what kind of fuel injection hose they had. They show the J30R9 hose online, but the local store didn't have any. They had some other hose that was listed as fuel injection hose, so I got their gates book and looked it up. Specs look better than the J30R9 hose to me. Am I missing something, or should this work fine?

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... &ppt=C0222

Its only $4.50/ft or so, rated at 225psi, resistant to all kinds of fuels (gasoline's, alcohols, diesels, etc). It says it exceeds the J30R14 spec except for kinking.

Looks good to me.. should I pick some up when I go back Tuesday for my throttle body gasket, or look elsewhere?

EDIT: Found the gates flyer at the bottom. Looks like a good fit. Its the barricade version for a wide range of fuel resistance. They have a low pressure carb version and a high pressure (225) for MPI.
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Re: How I replaced my L-jet fuel injector hoses

Post by Piledriver »

Vee Dub Nut wrote:Sorry to dredge this back up... but I went over to O'Reilly today to see what kind of fuel injection hose they had. They show the J30R9 hose online, but the local store didn't have any. They had some other hose that was listed as fuel injection hose, so I got their gates book and looked it up. Specs look better than the J30R9 hose to me. Am I missing something, or should this work fine?

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... &ppt=C0222

Its only $4.50/ft or so, rated at 225psi, resistant to all kinds of fuels (gasoline's, alcohols, diesels, etc). It says it exceeds the J30R14 spec except for kinking.

Looks good to me.. should I pick some up when I go back Tuesday for my throttle body gasket, or look elsewhere?

EDIT: Found the gates flyer at the bottom. Looks like a good fit. Its the barricade version for a wide range of fuel resistance. They have a low pressure carb version and a high pressure (225) for MPI.
That's a great price for barricade hose, same or less than the little 18" sections of R9 they love to sell to sell and stock on the displays.
IIRC NAPA tried to soak me for ~$10/foot when I asked about some a couple years ago.

You still obviously don't want to run 30 feet of it...
Unavailable online?
The stores always tell me they don't have hose "X", but the truth is they can't be bothered to go look if you call.
I always have to drag someone in the back and dig.

If they don't have (whatever) but it's listed as "in store=yes", they can order it and usually have it in a few hours, depending on what time the next truck from the warehouse runs.

Don't forget to order the IDEAL FI clamps online and prepay.(at least my local stores are weird about those for god know what reason)

The low pressure stuff would even be fine if your fuel pump cannot exceed the hosed ratings dead headed.
OTOH I don't know of any fuel injection-suitable pump that won't tho, even a DJET pump can hit ~90PSI or so.
I'd personally spend the extra, that hose should last a LONG time.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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Vee Dub Nut
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Re: How I replaced my L-jet fuel injector hoses

Post by Vee Dub Nut »

Great!... I'll be picking some up tomorrow when I go back for my gaskets.

I only need about three feet or so of each the 5/16" and 1/4" for jumpers in between the tank, pump, and supply hardline, and from the FPR back to the return hardline.

I already have two sets of the IDEAL FI clamps on their way from Summit. I had to order some fittings and other odds and ends from them and saw that they sold the clamps in packs of 10 for 6 bucks, so I got a box of both sizes for what I need.

Thanks for the input. I'm getting so close I can almost taste it!
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