What FI are you running and what do you recommend?

[miniman82]

Way to change the subject. You said MS isn't up to off road tasking, the version I posted clearly is. Sounds to me like you need to rediscover Megassquirt and do some reading, especially on MS3. All of the features you listed have had native support since the MS1/Extra code, nevermind the fact the half of them are not applicable to an aircooled VW engine. Cam control? What purpose is served by even mentioning such a feature here?

change the subject? huh? so MS FINALLY has a sealed case. big whoop. its a stripped down TWO CHANNEL system. apples and oranges.

Yes, it is a big whoop, since you obviously have no clue what you're talking about when it comes to MS. You talking about MS is like me trying to explain physics to Steven Hawking- utterly retarded. You were the one that came into a forum that likes MS quite a bit and started running off at the mouth about how weak it is, knowing the reaction would be exactly the same as last time. I smell a troll. Pile did a good job of explaining the features, but there's much more.

why buy a feature rich ECU? well i have customers that run ACVW motors and short course track with HONDA motors. they only buy ONE ECU but make two harnesses. unplug and change cal file and your VTEC works. and i can think of a lot of missing outputs that they beloved microsquirt doesnt have in the form of outputs to run fans, solenoids and so forth.

So get a $10 Tupperware and stick an MS3 in it! You're really making a big deal out of nothing here, I suppose if you didn't have to support Autronic by pimping it to your customers things would be easier though.

i guess im trying to figure out why the ONLY THING THAT MATTERS in an EFI system is how cheap it is.

It's not the only thing, just the biggest thing for people on a budget. You know what I bought with the money I didn't spend on Autronic? A turbo system. That's right, originally I was going to inject an N/A motor, but with the money I saved I happily started boosting.

MS works for what it is and has application, just get off your pompous arse and realize it aint gods gift to fuel injection.

And you aren't god's gift to women, what's your point?

It does what any other controller is capable of doing, but for a fraction of the cost. If us saving money and not buying YOUR system is jammed in your craw, I'd say time to get a life. If you're truely open minded though, you'd see that the people are simply doing what's common sense. Why spend an extra $1000 if you don't have to?

there are plenty of other viable alternatives out there. but the way MS is enshrined around here is a little comical.

The way you turn away from it because you are married to your system is equally entertaining, but worse, it's costing you thousands for not seeing the light. I have one thing to say:

I can find plenty of threads with people pulling there hair out trying to get one to work correctly, and spend tons of time effort (money) tracking down issues that with other systems simply arent even on the radar

True, but how many of those people would not have even bought an EFI system in the first place because of the high initial cost? At least with MS, if they can't get it to work they are out of hundreds of dollars. Burn down an SM4, and how much are you out of? It allows people to get their feet wet, there's going to be some collateral damage along the way. Just part of the learning process, at least they are trying.

[Piledriver]

Looking at the specs, I don't see anything the SM4 has over a MS3 + MS3x for the extra $1200 US.
(Other than it comes in a sealed box with automotive grade connector)
Forget about the added CAN stuff from an IOX, perhaps the AU$ has something similar?

For the record, You can get short MS cables (for use with a relay board) in fact they usually come in short, 8foot and 12ft, and can be special ordered any length you want for mo$. They are not all 30 inches long, that's pure fiction.
To date all I have bought is the 12 foot versions, as the extra wire can come in VERY handy, and the price is right if you need it.

The AU4s 4 high current ignition drivers, "8 with external expander" is an interesting choice, saves pins?
I personally REALLY _LIKE_ LS2 coils, as does ~anyone using them. Especially the truck version...
I'm quite happy with the logic level drives.
Can the AU4 use logic drive coils?(I assume it can)

Enlighten me why Autronic is worth ~3x the money for a DIY install and tune.
(Perhaps the price difference is not significant in Oz due to import duties?? THEN it might make sense)

People have most issues with MS because they don't buy a prebuilt/tested system, (which IS an option from MANY sources) or the instructions were not sufficient for them, or not followed.
(or they use a VR sensor... personal gripe, but for the record I didn't have much of an issue with mine once wired properly with the correct shielded twisted pair cable)

Not everyone building a MS from a kit is an electrical whiz, it's INTENDED as a learning tool.
Even if you blow it up, you can probably fix it, if not, there are plenty of folks who can.
The availability of the firmware sourcecode and Free dev environment for MS2/MS3 may matter to some.

Short: If you want help on this board, generally if you have a MS you can get it, as plenty of others here have been down this road, on motors like yours.

Perhaps we need a subforum for our Autronic users?

//end rant

[SUbuggy]

So get a $10 Tupperware and stick an MS3 in it! You're really making a big deal out of nothing here, I suppose if you didn't have to support Autronic by pimping it to your customers things would be easier though

tupperware efi.....i think you coined a new phrase...........

And you aren't god's gift to women, what's your point?

It does what any other controller is capable of doing, but for a fraction of the cost. If us saving money and not buying YOUR system is jammed in your craw, I'd say time to get a life. If you're truely open minded though, you'd see that the people are simply doing what's common sense. Why spend an extra $1000 if you don't have to?

first of all, its not MY system, i dont OWN Autonic or any other ECU for that matter. open minded? this is the only place incapable of being open minded, at least when it comes to anything other then MS.

The way you turn away from it because you are married to your system is equally entertaining, but worse, it's costing you thousands for not seeing the light. I have one thing to say:

married? i work on Motec, EFI technology, FAST, Haltech, Autronic, MEFI, Vi-Pec, Pectel (Syvek-life racing) and some others i cant think of just of the top of my head. how many other systems can you say you have worked on? I said i found Autronic to be the best mix of features, quality, and cost. thats why i recomend it.

Perhaps we need a subforum for our Autronic users?

not really. in fact there is a MS specific forum here. THE OP in a forum titled engine management asked "what FI are you using and recomend?" Funny, he didnt ask "which MS should i buy?" but you MS guys come on here quick to fire off on anyone who god forbid may suggest something than MS. guess thats why i quit hanging out here, too many close minded idiots who only see value in how cheaply they can buy something.

[Devastator]

THE OP in a forum titled engine management asked "what FI are you using and recomend?"

Right. Many of us are using MS and recommend it. As I stated earlier, I'm not interested in the usual war that takes place when MS is mentioned.
I've heard good things about Haltech, Motech, and Autronic. I've only used MS though. I think the originator of this post probably has enough information to make his decision. Should he choose MS, there are several guys here to answer questions he might have, as well as an exceptional forum at the MSEFI site. Should he choose Autronic, can he ask you, (SUbuggy), for help? I don't mean for that to sound condescending and I'm not trying to be an ass or inflame anyone here. I'm merely trying to provide information for him so that he knows where to turn if he has a problem. I'm assuming that there are Autronic, Motec, and Haltech forums, right? Maybe post the link to those in this thread?

[SUbuggy]

[quoteRight. Many of us are using MS and recommend it. As I stated earlier, I'm not interested in the usual war that takes place when MS is mentioned.
I've heard good things about Haltech, Motech, and Autronic. I've only used MS though. I think the originator of this post probably has enough information to make his decision. Should he choose MS, there are several guys here to answer questions he might have, as well as an exceptional forum at the MSEFI site. Should he choose Autronic, can he ask you, (SUbuggy), for help? I don't mean for that to sound condescending and I'm not trying to be an ass or inflame anyone here. I'm merely trying to provide information for him so that he knows where to turn if he has a problem. I'm assuming that there are Autronic, Motec, and Haltech forums, right? Maybe post the link to those in this thread][/quote]

autronic support forum.

http://www.mrm-racing.se/forum/index.php

and yes, if anyone has questions regarding application of ACVW EFI, i have no problem giving my advice or opinion. im not here trying to sell or promote anything. I post here simply becasue I too enjoy VW engines and run them on cars of my own. But i quit posting becasue of the close minded people around here that blindly worship MS and think anyone else on the planet that might go down a different road is crazy.

[miniman82]

So get a $10 Tupperware and stick an MS3 in it! You're really making a big deal out of nothing here, I suppose if you didn't have to support Autronic by pimping it to your customers things would be easier though

tupperware efi.....i think you coined a new phrase...........

Maybe I'll make some stickers and put them on my car. Tupperware Racing, anyone?

I'm just trying to point out that MS is amazingly flexible, it's doesn't have to be in a cheap plastic box. You could put it in something nice, if you wanted.

first of all, its not MY system, i dont OWN Autonic or any other ECU for that matter. open minded? this is the only place incapable of being open minded, at least when it comes to anything other then MS.

Well, yeah, when it comes to price. How about this: the same day the price of Autronic is equal to MS, I'll pick one up and give it a shot. But that will never happen, because MS was designed to be open source with hardware and firmware. Anyone can make changes to it, or do development work. Therefore, it's cost is substantially lower than a place that keeps electrical engineers and software programmers on the rolls to design their products. To me, it's the ultimate expression of what it means to be American: Bruce and Al saw a niche that could be filled, and they exploited it. Not only that, on our end it was like a golden ticket because the keys to the EFI kingdom were just handed to us on a silver platter. Just buy it and have fun with it!

I'm one of those people that never would have done FI, if it weren't for MS. I bought my V2.2 board from Glen's Garage for $175 back in 2004, or something like that. If it weren't for MS I'd have a 1915 with Kads, not a 1915 turbo with crank triggered ignition and fuel injection. Tightwad? Maybe, but I'm still boosting the same as anyone with a $3000 ECU in my VW....

married? i work on Motec, EFI technology, FAST, Haltech, Autronic, MEFI, Vi-Pec, Pectel (Syvek-life racing) and some others i cant think of just of the top of my head. how many other systems can you say you have worked on? I said i found Autronic to be the best mix of features, quality, and cost. thats why i recomend it.

You system is also out of the price range of about 10 people I can count off the top of my head, and like I keep saying, MS has definitely found it's niche in the auto world because of that fact. I've done work on Fast, Hondata, SDS, MS, Big Stuff and the CB injections systems. Of all of them, Big Stuff is a very close second to MS but only because of price. If I had the coin, I'd run Big Stuff in a heartbeat. The interface is almost easier than TS is for MS.

guess thats why i quit hanging out here, too many close minded idiots who only see value in how cheaply they can buy something.

No, you quit hanging out here because you got fed up with the fact that people have found a system they love to work on and it don't hardly cost them anything to buy.

Here's a good example from October 22nd of 2010 (from the 'what not to do' thread):

spend thousands on top notch parts, very carefully assmble and triple check everything, then run out and spend $99 on an engine management system expect it to work like a swiss watch.

It's pretty obvious to everyone on here you don't like MS and want nothing to do with it. Why not just tell people how you really feel? Is there something MS does not do well at it's price point? Is it inferior because it's not made by Autronic? You need to be specific, instead of simply bashing the thing everytime it comes up in converation, That's only likely to get you flamed by me and every other MS'er on here. Which is a lot more than run Autronic, BTW.

[Devastator]

If I had the coin, I'd run Big Stuff in a heartbeat.

For any of you out there that don't have a virus scanner on your computer, don't Google "Big stuff EFI". Google "Force Fuel Injection" instead, or go here:
http://www.force-efi.com/bigstuff.htm

[miniman82]

I like that it has onboard wideband, no messing with an extra box. The software can be funky; it definitely doesn't like to connect via USB with Windows Vista, but we all know that's a Bill Gates problem not with the EFI. The driver is inop last I checked, something about an invalid certificate or unsugned certificate. Works fine in XP.

[supaninja]

When I got my MS I was a starving college student on a budget. My notch is a total terd, and it's not fast. I got it running on the stock Ljet stuff. I then built my own fuel injection around GSXR TB's. I got 11,000 miles on it now and it still puts a smile on my face when I drive it. So why would I want to spend $2000 on fancy name brand ems? What is it going to do for me that MS isn't already doing?

Haters gunna hate

[Paul H]

Any of you guys used more than one engine management system or spent any time tuning on a dyno?

[Steve Arndt]

I have installed and used the old two knob CB Performance ECU, Haltech F3, Haltech F9A, and Redline in that order.

Steve

[Paul H]

OK so you should be able to offer some good comparisons between those sytems although I have used the 2 knob and 4 knob (or was it 3 ??) CB systems they are in a different class.
Once you've tuned and run a few different ECU's you really know what's going on

[Theo]

Any of you guys used more than one engine management system or spent any time tuning on a dyno?

I spent a ton of time tuning my MS3 baja motor on the motor dyno. That was an experience. I was able to play with A/F and timing for hours. Found how to cause detonation, watched the changes in the timing and how that affected A/F. I learned a lot.

For me MS has been like going to Fuel Injection Academy. If you really want to understand FI building a SIM and then a MS is a wonderful learning experience. I'm not afraid of FI any more and have built 3 MS cars.

I have paid big money to have my Subaru WRX stock ecu reprogrammed. It cost more to get the Suby ECU programmed than the MS cost. The Suby ECU is a work of magic and does some amazing stuff. I don't think MS comes close to this system for pushing out every ounce of power.

The $169 MS kit was priced at a point I was willing to try it and MS opened the doors for me. "Professional ECU's" are still priced out of my range for my hobby VW use.

I have been asked to help build a motor for a friend that will use Haltec. Looking forward to that.

[Steve Arndt]

The Haltech systems I've used were very easy to get the tune in the ball park. You directly manipulate the PW to build the fuel curves in their old software. They didn't use a VE model based map like the newer stuff. My old Haltech's were all DOS software. Very straight forward to tune.

The Redline setup I have now is cool because you can enter the slope and y intercept of the base speed density map and it comes very close to having all your cells tuned with only two software entries. Then the giant mapping table allows you to shift up/down the values that are derived from your Kpa vs RPM base table. It also has full TPS vs RPM tables, AND a % mix table between the two previously mentioned tables. It is very flexible and allows infinite tuning, but you can get the engine running decent/fired up with only two values to enter in the fuel map (They call it main and idle in the software, but it is slope and y intercept in speed density lingo). I run 80% off my TPS table below 6% throttle opening. After that I progress to full pressure based mapping. This works great with the individual throttle bodies.

s

[Devastator]

It also has full TPS vs RPM tables, AND a % mix table between the two previously mentioned tables. It is very flexible and allows infinite tuning, but you can get the engine running decent/fired up with only two values to enter in the fuel map (They call it main and idle in the software, but it is slope and y intercept in speed density lingo). I run 80% off my TPS table below 6% throttle opening. After that I progress to full pressure based mapping. This works great with the individual throttle bodies.

That's pretty cool!