MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo "Beetle"

[kangaboy]

Just purchased the full version of TS, and its pretty cool. The autotune changed about every cell on my tune, but it sucks cause I didn't have my Lambda delay set up (I used Piledrivers example, as he mentioned if it wasnt totally correct for everyone, it would be better than the default...assuming my extractor is somewhere near the same length). So I'm going to head out in a little bit to get another run in, and run a log. Any other settings that should be changed prior to using autotune? I don't have my coolant sensor set up yet, but that will have to be a different weekend project.
Anyway, prior to using the autotune feature, I was getting the motor warmed up and ready. With my new MAT sensor installed and working, it was reading temps up to 180F. Those were just 3rd and 4th gear cruising temps. Did a little research and it seems that these temps are waaaay high. I dont know what the temps were during/after the auto tune run, but I wouldn't expect them to be that much different or lower. It looked like the gauge was getting close to 200F before I started running my autotune. Any thoughts?

[Chip Birks]

Where is your sensor located?

[kangaboy]

It's right in the middle of my "T" manifold, after the throttle body. Pretty much the same place that Clonebug has his. I probably posted this a little soon...as I haven't gotten my air filter hooked up yet, so the I'm kinda sucking in hot air from under the engine bay. I'm sure that has a bit to do with it, but even so, if I get my air filter hooked up, and sucking engine bay air, is 180-200F too hot?

[Chip Birks]

That's pretty hot. I had a turbo car running about those temps. My solution involved completely reconfiguring the intake, exhaust, and engine over a couple years. Bigger more efficient turbo and an air to water intercooler. Hopefully your solution is simpler than mine

[kangaboy]

I lied. I just checked my drive yesterday on MLV, and it says my MATs got up to 240F...jezus weezus.
I ordered some new mandrel bent steel and a cone air filter yesterday, so hopefully when that comes, I can create a pipe from the turbo, through the engine tin, and have the filter in the engine bay. I bet if it is sucking in the "cooler" engine bay air, along with a tennis ball propping the deck lid open, it will run cooler. I have all my tins in place, but need to make some of those industrial tins that go where the heaterboxes were. That is where i may be missing some cooling. I have new engine bay seals in too.

[Chip Birks]

Is your sensor calibrated?

[kangaboy]

I got this one from EBay, and it mentioned this:
"If you need to calibrate your MS for this sensor, here's the calibration data we use for them for a three point curve.
Temperature Ohms
48 degrees F 7000
87 degrees F 1930
146 degrees F 560"

Here is the order page:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-Open-Element ... NO&vxp=mtr

Do I need to pull it out and check it?

[kangaboy]

One step forward, two steps back.
I got the intake issue taken care of, and was hopping it was causing my IATs to be so high. After getting it all put together, and wrestling with the tin for a few hours, I got it all where I want it.





I just took a little 20 min test drive, and it appears my IATs are a bit lower now. I think they were up around 200F last time, and they were riding ~140-145 this time. They shot up pretty good when I got the boost on, but they quickly came back down after I let off.

So the backwards part came in when I un-hooked my wastegate and O2 sensor when working on the tin. Well I wanted to have the bug backed into the garage for better lighting, so halfway through the ordeal, I fired it up and backed it in...I think this buggered up my LC2, cause now it is reading really high all the time. The light on the controller is still solid green, but I guess it calibrated without the unit plugged in or something. Should I remove the O2 sensor from the exhaust and have it read the free air to re-calibrate, and then re-install the 02 sensor again? I just want to get another opinion before I go through the ordeal...because we all know we have to typically remove three things in the turbo/EFI motor to get to the one thing we're working on.

[Clonebug]

I would re-calibrate before trying anything else.
I moved to a PLX AFR setup and it never needs calibrating....I am sooo glad my LM-1 puked.

[kangaboy]

Quick update. Reading the instructions on the wideband sensor, it says if you run the controller without the sensor plugged in, you will have to recalibrate. So I recalibrated, and its good to go now.
I still don't have the bug legal (having trouble finding time to get the safety inspection re-done...because I failed the first go through because of bad rear tires, due to my camber being off) but I have been driving it around the back roads around my house getting some tuning in. I have only driven it at highway speeds to and from the safety inspector each time, but it can get up to 80 pretty quick now
As far as tuning, I need to get it to run a bit cooler. The air filter intake located in the engine bay helped quite a bit with the IATs, and I have always run a tennis ball propping the deck lid open, but head temps are generally 50F higher with my new engine setup. With dual carbs and a distributor, I had it running around 300-350F on my VDO CHT sensor (this sensor has always read about 40-50F high). Now it runs around 350-400F. I'll figure out how to post an MSQ to show my tune, as I'm sure no one will be able to offer any advice until then. I do have a few gaps in my tin right around the turbo, but for the most part, the tin is pretty tight.

Here's a question too...I took (what I thought was) a coolant temp sensor off a dodge neon to use as a CHT sensor for warm up enrichment. There are two wires coming off the sensor (blue/green and green/black). I hooked up the sensor both ways, to the sensor ground and MS Wire21 (coolant temp), but both ways when I kicked on my computer and MS, it showed 180F on the sensor. Is there something that has to be switched on in TunerStudio? Or is this just an incorrect sensor? And further...can each specific sensor only be hooked to its specific input (i.e. Coolant sensor can only be hooked to coolant wiring, IAT sensor can only be hooked to IAT wiring)? I was under the impression that all sensors were kinda just like thermocouples with different housings.

[Chip Birks]

The ms is tuned for a GM sensor. You will need to either change the bias resistor in the ms to one compatible with the dodge sensor or simply do some testing to measure the resistance of your sensor at freezing, room temp and boiling to get the ms the info it needs to actually measure correctly.

[Piledriver]

You can enter the measured values in the sensor calibration, rest works automagically. Go there.

[kangaboy]

Ehh, just ordered a closed element GM sensor from DIYautotune. Found out the one I got off the Neon was a single wire element, in the sort that one wire went the ECU, and the other went to the gauge.

Another question...how do you wire the reverse lights up without the negative side of the coil?

[Chip Birks]

Don't reverse lights hook to the + side of the coil? All it is is a switched 12v source. You can get one from pretty much anywhere else...

[kangaboy]

Dang, well if that's the case, I guess it will be a little easier then I thought.