MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "Upgrading Clutch"

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RHough
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "Tuning and Tweaking"

Post by RHough » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:34 pm

Chip Birks wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:45 pm
I have a TB from a Mercury Cougar, probably mid 90s. It had a ford idle valve built onto it. I never got the ford valve to play nicely. I ended up pulling it off and plugging its holes. I welded a couple pipes onto my intake existing intake and run a bosch valve. Works great! Tb is about 50mm. I don't think you'll find many that fit your criteria. I've never seen a bosch valve connected to a tb.
I'd be happy with a TB that has bypass ports I can use the Bosch IAC with. Or a TB with IAC that will run off a Microsquirt. I think the VW EFI TB/Manifold uses a Bosch valve and short hoses, so I'm looking at lots of TB images on the net.

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Chip Birks
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "Tuning and Tweaking"

Post by Chip Birks » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:25 pm

I ran the Mexican stuff earlier. I loved the bosch valve with that setup. I had to tap the ports on my current tb. But they are plugged now. I have pretty long hoses going to the valve.

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Piledriver
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "Tuning and Tweaking"

Post by Piledriver » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:14 am

Most of the Bosch (or more commonly VDO) valves were stand alone and just need a decent sized port on the plenum or such.
As they are wear items, they needed to be ~easily replaceable.

If the one you have is worn out it may be the cause of your problems, they tend to get leaky/sloppy, they constantly vibrate at 99Hz and simply wear out eventually.
A fresh one may work fine for you (will need the min and max DC reset)

Get a 3 wire if you have an MS3X, used IDLE and vvt, works peachy.
The 2 wire can be made to work but IME not quite as well.
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RHough
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "Tuning and Tweaking"

Post by RHough » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:34 am

Piledriver wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:14 am
Most of the Bosch (or more commonly VDO) valves were stand alone and just need a decent sized port on the plenum or such.
As they are wear items, they needed to be ~easily replaceable.

If the one you have is worn out it may be the cause of your problems, they tend to get leaky/sloppy, they constantly vibrate at 99Hz and simply wear out eventually.
A fresh one may work fine for you (will need the min and max DC reset)

Get a 3 wire if you have an MS3X, used IDLE and vvt, works peachy.
The 2 wire can be made to work but IME not quite as well.
No plenum ... When I created a manifold to use the IAC with the individual runner system the idle was too high reducing the volume of the IAC manifold and playing with fitting size, hose size, and hose length got me a compromise that sort of works. Cold fast idle is limited by the restricted IAC manifold and hot idle has the IAC at 30-32% with the throttle plates almost fully closed. I use timing to set idle RPM. I have a low advance 'return to idle please' track in my spark map to tame the dashpot function and get the engine to return to idle.

I suspect that a plenum under a single TB would be easier to deal with. Not to mention making room for an AC compressor and simplifying cruise control installation.

IAC has under 200 hours on the engine, was new.

If the Mexico EFI bits would flow as well as a pair of IDF44's I'd go that route. I suspect they don't.

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kangaboy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "Tuning and Tweaking"

Post by kangaboy » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:19 pm

Hi All...spring time is here, almost time to start daily-ing the beetle...and wouldn't you know it...I didn't do any of the upgrades that I had in my head.
I did get one completed, and that was to add a mechanical brake light switch. I just order a couple of the little micro switches off Ebay, wired it inline with the current brake lights (so if the micro switch dies, I'll still have brake lights), and installed some LED brake lights so it wouldn't put too much current through the micro switch...hopefully making it last longer.
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kangaboy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "Tuning and Tweaking"

Post by kangaboy » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:12 pm

Now on to the To-Do list of 2018, and it entails two upgrades right off the bat. The first is lowering the front end. As I was typing this about to ask for instructions, I found some on TOS, so I wont have to bring that up. I have the AVIS ones that you just have to cut the slot into the beam I guess. Hopefully a weekend project...that I have put off for the last 5 or so years.
Anyway, next is boost. I spoke with Chip awhile ago and he gave me some insight on the Air to Water Intercooler. The more I look at my set up and manifolds, the more trouble I have seeing a setup like his work for me. I have no problem cutting a couple holes through the doghouse and the package tray, its just that I have the stock Mexican looking endcastings that bring my manifold to the rear of the car...and trying to plumb the charge pipe from the turbo, up and over/through the doghouse, through the package tray to the intercooler, back out through the packaging tray and doghouse, onto the throttle body, and into the manifold...its just a lot going on. I'm going to do it, just need to look at it a few more times.
In the mean time, I need to take my intake off to install a port for the IAC that I recently got to hopefully help cold/hot starts. I was thinking since I'm going to have the manifold off, may as well install some ports for water/meth. I want the intercooler, but may as well get a little spray kit going in the mean time.
What kind of port/s should I be putting in the manifold. I was thinking two (one near each endcasting), or just one in the middle after the throttle body but before the T.
Someone point me in the right direction for a kit...I wanna get this going. I need double digit boost :D

EDIT: This look good? https://www.ebay.com/i/252822250596?chn=ps
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
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risk
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "Tuning and Tweaking"

Post by risk » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:19 am

I'm thinking you will get better cooling of the charge with the water/meth port farther away from the end castings. My vote would be near the throttle body above the tee. The kits usually come with a bulkhead style fitting so no welding is necessary.

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kangaboy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "Tuning and Tweaking"

Post by kangaboy » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:54 am

risk wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:19 am
My vote would be near the throttle body above the tee.
This makes more sense now that I think about it. My IAT sensor is on the 1-2 side of the manifold, after the T. If I didn't have the water/meth port in front of the IAT sensor, there would be no way to tell intake temps.

EDIT: Should the nozzle be installed before the throttle body? The instructions say that it needs to have a solenoid or check valve installed if its after the TB due to the vacuum
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
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kangaboy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "Tuning and Tweaking"

Post by kangaboy » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:59 am

New gas station opened up in my town...they sell E85 :D
I'm going to start looking into what I need to do to switch over to E85 (injectors, fuel lines, etc.)

Also still want to do the water/meth kit...does anyone have a suggestion on a kit to buy? The Snow Performance link I showed above got mediocre reviews. Anything else to look at?
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "Tuning and Tweaking"

Post by MarioVelotta » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:20 am

Do you plan on switching back and forth from between the 2 fuels?

I stock the Snow Performance kits, they have worked well for me. The basic kit is just as good as the other brands I've used.
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kangaboy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "Tuning and Tweaking"

Post by kangaboy » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:58 am

Hey Mario,
I wasn't planning on switching between E85 and 91 octane, unless I was on a long trip and got into a pinch or something. 90% of my time in the beetle is back and forth to work right now, so I should be good on keeping it E85 after I make the switch. If the fuel system starts leaking I'll just take that as a sign I need to upgrade my connections anyway.
For my injectors right now, I'm hitting 58% duty cycle at 150kpa(7.4lbs). No clue how much more boost I will be able to run with the E85, so I don't know if larger injectors are necessary right off the bat.
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
My Megasquirt Turbo Build

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Chip Birks
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "E85 and Water/Meth"

Post by Chip Birks » Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:02 pm

You will use 30% or so more fuel than with gas. I REALLY like having a fuel composition sensor. It just makes life simpler. I drive by an e85 station every day on my way to work, but it's the only one in the state, and I don't have a gas gauge in the car. My rear has been saved more than once by having that sensor in place. I've pulled into work running on fumes and had to put a gallon or so into the tank at the closest one to me. Then filled up with e85 4 miles down the road. Didn't have to adjust a thing. The car fired right up and ran awesome. Also, MS can change boost settings based on fuel comp, meaning it will always be safe. Hard to justify not doing it, when all you need is a $50 or less sensor and a little plumbing and you're good to go.

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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "E85 and Water/Meth"

Post by kangaboy » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:27 pm

Got the manifold off today to instal a port for my new idle valve. That manifold is pretty busy now in that area. Hopping I have a spot to put my water meth port still. Figure that out later.
Also ordered a flex fuel sensor and pigtail from Amazon for $50. Looking forward to giving E85 a shot in the near future.
Two questions. If I don't have a good area to put the water/meth port below the TB, how bad off would I be putting it above?
Second question, how the heck am I supposed to know how much boost I can run with E85, because I won't have a change in IATs up in the manifold. EGT? Knock sensor? Is there a calculation? I don't have a knock sensor or EGT sensor at the moment.
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
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Chip Birks
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "E85 and Water/Meth"

Post by Chip Birks » Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:46 pm

Just turn it up till it blows up, take note of the number, set your limiter there, then rebuild and you're good to go :D



There are plenty of folks running e85 well over 30psi. Make sure you have plenty of fuel, and that you don't over rev it, it should be fine. The only time I've damaged mine on e85 was when I boosted to the moon cuz my line blew off the gate(28psi), and went lean. The car still ran low 11s a couple weeks later with a cracked cylinder. I didn't even know it was broken until I took it apart for a checkup and found the crack. I'm building a 1641 that will go above 30 if I can get the turbo system to play nice.

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kangaboy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "E85 and Water/Meth"

Post by kangaboy » Tue May 01, 2018 9:46 pm

Got my 3 wire idle valve installed today. Feel pretty good about that one. When I reverted my tune back to get rid of the hiccups that I had a few months ago, I messed up the warm up and idle settings and it takes damn near 5 minutes for it to fire back up after being warm. But now that I have the idle valve, figured I would wait till now to get it properly tuned for startups.

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Just going to put a clamp on filter on the idle valve. Figured that would be easier than routing it to my intake piping.
Hoping that the startup auto tune gets me on the right track when I fire it up tomorrow.
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
My Megasquirt Turbo Build

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