MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "Upgrading Clutch"

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kangaboy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "E85 and Water/Meth"

Post by kangaboy » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:33 pm

Almost ran the tank dry of 89oct on the way home tonight...and I swore to myself that when I filled it up with e85 I was gonna take it easy...I swore.
Well, with the waste gate inactive at the moment, and a full tank of e85 coursing through my fuel lines...I listened to the devil on the shoulder and floored it after a few miles of driving.
Almost blew everything to hell :roll:
Duty cycle was maxed on my little 380cc injectors at 12lbs of boost and 4800rpm. AFR went to 22.0, the car did a nose dive, and I don't know how things are still together. I drove it around for a bit and made sure all was well. Went into a few lbs of boost to make sure it was all still working, and drove home for the night.
Now the hunt for bigger injectors begins. I'm also starting to think that the Garret T19 turbo that I am using is a little too big. With only ~400 more RPM to go, I don't know if I could even get to 20+ lbs of boost.
I'm just gonna count my blessings and take this as yet another big learning experience.
Log attached for those that want a look...beware, it's cringeworthy
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'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
My Megasquirt Turbo Build

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Chip Birks
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "E85 and Water/Meth"

Post by Chip Birks » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:37 pm

Do you have the afr safety stuff setup?

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kangaboy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "E85 and Water/Meth"

Post by kangaboy » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:14 pm

Negative...even though you already mentioned that once already. I'll make sure I get it set up before something like this happens again. Would it be quick enough to be able to prevent something like this from happening?
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
My Megasquirt Turbo Build

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Chip Birks
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "E85 and Water/Meth"

Post by Chip Birks » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:16 pm

kangaboy wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:14 pm
Negative...even though you already mentioned that once already. I'll make sure I get it set up before something like this happens again. Would it be quick enough to be able to prevent something like this from happening?
It can be. Just depends on how aggressive you set it. I've had it too aggressive in the past, got tired of it, turned it off, torched cylinders. It serves its purpose.

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kangaboy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "E85 and Bigger Injectors"

Post by kangaboy » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:36 am

So I've been running the E85 for a week now. Haven't been able to push it to 20lbs yet because of my injectors, but it seems to be running flawlessly with a seamless transition from the 89 Octane I was running.

Now that I am in the market for new injectors, I have been glancing over Ebay and the like. I assume that most of the injectors that I have been looking at for Subarus and Hondas will work for me, regarding the style and fitment, but I just wanted to double check with you all.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-Subaru-820c ... 9501!US!-1

I would guess with the correct gaskets that most injectors could be made to fit correctly, but wanted to make sure. Also, are 820cc injectors too big for my motor? I checked an E85 calculator online and it said at 80% DC that I could do 250hp at the wheels with 735cc injectors. I don't know if there are any low rev or idle issues with too big of an injector. 250hp is about all I would want to do with my current set up. Just wanted to make sure they weren't too big for idle and low rev cruising.
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
My Megasquirt Turbo Build

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Chip Birks
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "E85 and Bigger Injectors"

Post by Chip Birks » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:10 pm

I will be doing at least 1000cc with my 1641 on e85. Might go bigger...

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kangaboy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "E85 and Bigger Injectors"

Post by kangaboy » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:51 pm

Are you concerned about low rpm issues? Guess its just the quality of the injectors too.
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
My Megasquirt Turbo Build

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Chip Birks
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "E85 and Bigger Injectors"

Post by Chip Birks » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:13 pm

kangaboy wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:51 pm
Are you concerned about low rpm issues? Guess its just the quality of the injectors too.
Not at all. My 1000s are nice injectors, well known for their ability to control fuel at very low rpm and with small cc.

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kangaboy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "E85 and Bigger Injectors"

Post by kangaboy » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:07 am

I've only done a couple fill ups with E85, but it looks like I'm getting ~22 mpg. Yikes. I guess that's ok considering the fuel, but it kinda sucks getting gas every three days.
Had to channel my inner MacGyver yesterday when my throttle cable busted at the pedal right after leaving work. I was able to scrap some parts together and ended up crimping a small ring terminal on the broken end, and then zip tied that to the roller pedal. Babied it all the way home like that for 30 miles in traffic till I could get home and put a little bigger hardware on it. Looking to pick up something a little more heavy duty this time around, as that cable has only been on for a few thousand miles.
I ordered the 820cc denzo injectors off EBay, and I'm really hoping that the O-rings they come with are correct for my fuel rails and endcastings. If not, I'm sure it will delay everything by a few days. Really looking forward to getting up in the 20lbs area :twisted:

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'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
My Megasquirt Turbo Build

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kangaboy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "E85 and Bigger Injectors"

Post by kangaboy » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:30 pm

Got the new injectors in the mail. Looks like I need to get some different O-rings for both sides...as well as new pig tails. The Subaru injectors wont be plug and play with the GM pigtails :cry:
So, few more days to get them ordered along with some O-rings, and we'll be good to go there.
I don't know how long it typically takes for the E85 to show signs of decay on the fuel system, but some of my lines were already leaking at the fuel rails. They didn't seem to leak when I was driving, but when I went to take the hose clamps off of the nipples coming off the fuel rails, they spurted out a few drops of fuel. Decided I don't want to burn my engine to the ground, so I ordered a tube flaring kit off amazon an will be making hard lines for the engine bay. So that will add a few more days to the down time, which is fine because were supposed to hit triple digits this week in the Midwest..
Any suggestions on where to get the pigtails cheap, along with some new O-rings that will work? I ordered some Denso pigtails off Ebay

Image

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Positive note, I got my GTIs manifold off and replaced, along with PCV valve. Drives like a new car again, and will be a delight to have AC again :wink: Funny to work in these newer cars now and understanding all the sensors and parts that I have incorporated into my beetle. Except that the new cars still manage to get so much crap in that engine bay. Just like the beetle, it required removed three or four things to get the one part out that you need to get to.
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
My Megasquirt Turbo Build

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Chip Birks
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "E85 and Bigger Injectors"

Post by Chip Birks » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:20 pm

I'm in a similar boat with my new injectors. GM plug is what I have, Denso is what I need. I'd love to find some adaptors that can plug into my gm ones and then pigtail to the Densos. Gotta keep searching.

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kangaboy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "E85 and Bigger Injectors"

Post by kangaboy » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:43 am

Chip Birks wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:20 pm
I'm in a similar boat with my new injectors. GM plug is what I have, Denso is what I need. I'd love to find some adaptors that can plug into my gm ones and then pigtail to the Densos. Gotta keep searching.
Denso Adapters

I think these would work for you. Free shipping too. They also have adapters with a pigtail in between if you need more wire.

Any thoughts on what I should do for O-rings? I feel like it would be a difficult time measuring and ordering specifics. I have a box of assorted O-rings that I picked up from the hardware store a while ago. Maybe I'll just rummage through there until I find one that fits tight.
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
My Megasquirt Turbo Build

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Chip Birks
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "E85 and Bigger Injectors"

Post by Chip Birks » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:12 am

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 2597339080
Those look nice. Finding normal rubber rings sounds like a pretty bad idea to me. Fire hazard! Get the real deal. 14mm is what you want, assuming cb top and bottom hardware.

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kangaboy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "E85 and Bigger Injectors"

Post by kangaboy » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:19 pm

Got them ordered. The ones that I pulled off the GM ones and tried to fit on the Densos then in the fuel rail were hella tight. Hope they were just a little expanded or something. Guess I can just lube them up with something and try to finagle them in there. Here's hoping for the best.
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
My Megasquirt Turbo Build

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kangaboy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo- "E85 and Bigger Injectors"

Post by kangaboy » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:50 am

Got the new injectors in. They were a bear to deal with, but a rubber mallet and some silicone spray helped me persuade them into their new homes. One or two of the o rings looked a tiny bit crooked, but I think they are big enough that they have a solid seal.

Image

Took a few hours yesterday and got the new hard fuel lines bent up and assembled. That was a hell of a time getting all the bends and turns correct. Installed the new pig tails for the Densos as well. Just need to finish up the final plumbing for the return fuel line, and then get the manifolds and all the intake plumbing back in place and see what the new injectors can do. With this being my first project dealing with the fuel hard lines and the flare fittings...I'm reaaaaaally hoping for no leaks. The flares looked good to me, but I haven't really had any experience doing it in the past.
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
My Megasquirt Turbo Build

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