Share yor AFR table.
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Re: Share yor AFR table.
I was chatting with Mario and he recommended to start with it off, although I might have got that wrong. I have been learning on the job as I picked the van up expecting it to be basically set up and it wasn't, so it's a steep learning curve.
The AFR is 13.5 all over to start and now it's set up, the actual AFR looks correct on the dashboard at 13.5. If I had the setting to include AFR table, what would happen differently?
The AFR is 13.5 all over to start and now it's set up, the actual AFR looks correct on the dashboard at 13.5. If I had the setting to include AFR table, what would happen differently?
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Re: Share yor AFR table.
I would believe that the recommendation was to start with EGO correction (closed loop) off to prevent oscillation. Anyway, you can manually fix it with a bit of calculator work.
Turn include AFR target on, multiply all VE table cells by 13.5 and divide by 14.7. You can do this since your entire AFR table is 13.5. You can then fiddle with the AFR table independent from the VE table.
For you it's actually a simple fix, you may even be able to apply it to the entire table in one operation (select all cells and select the multiplier operator).
Turn include AFR target on, multiply all VE table cells by 13.5 and divide by 14.7. You can do this since your entire AFR table is 13.5. You can then fiddle with the AFR table independent from the VE table.
For you it's actually a simple fix, you may even be able to apply it to the entire table in one operation (select all cells and select the multiplier operator).
Joachim
- Fia, '14 Fiesta Titanium
- Frk Jensen, '74 Jensen-Healey
- Kengu, '90 Caravelle C Syncro
Diesel is good for cleaning parts...
- Fia, '14 Fiesta Titanium
- Frk Jensen, '74 Jensen-Healey
- Kengu, '90 Caravelle C Syncro
Diesel is good for cleaning parts...
- Piledriver
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Re: Share yor AFR table.
TunerStudio can actually work fine with EGO control on, but initially, its better off until you have a drivable tune.
Mind, that can be under 10 minutes if you have a handy highway with on ramps, less if you have hills or a dyno.
(allows you to slowly hit ~all areas of the VE table, more samples gives better results)
You also want to start with the simple std accels, the more advanced model based wall wetting options (XTAW, EAE) need the VE table to be reasonably correct first, or they multiply the errors, and can appear like they suck ...
They don't, but they need a good VE table to work properly, garbage in, garbage out and all that.
You should also flatline WUE and ASE until VE table is reasonably decent.
Mind, that can be under 10 minutes if you have a handy highway with on ramps, less if you have hills or a dyno.
(allows you to slowly hit ~all areas of the VE table, more samples gives better results)
You also want to start with the simple std accels, the more advanced model based wall wetting options (XTAW, EAE) need the VE table to be reasonably correct first, or they multiply the errors, and can appear like they suck ...
They don't, but they need a good VE table to work properly, garbage in, garbage out and all that.
You should also flatline WUE and ASE until VE table is reasonably decent.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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Re: Share yor AFR table.
Thanks guys. Include AFR is now on and I factored the previous VE down before starting the AL process again. The VE table is half decent now, my daughter rode along as chief data logger so I could target the various parts of the map.
I'm going to mess about with AFR and timing next. Got a long drive on Friday (300+ miles) and an 11 year old as computer operator, so it should be possible to refine the cruising AFR / timing.
I'm going to mess about with AFR and timing next. Got a long drive on Friday (300+ miles) and an 11 year old as computer operator, so it should be possible to refine the cruising AFR / timing.
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Re: Share yor AFR table.
How is it running John?JohnConnolly wrote:I re-clocked the AFM spring to hold the flapper open instead of closed, the stock filter, box, and cold air intake can't be beat.
s
Steve
My Baja Build
My Baja Build
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Re: Share yor AFR table.
I fought for 6 weeks getting it to pass our local SMOG. The problem is not the MS, but is probably worn rings and valve guides on the engine (150k mi). Runs super clean at 2500, but the idle test kept failing, regardless of fuel and timing changes. I got it thru, don't ask.
I got the 2nd baro mod done to the MS, so that's no longer an issue.
I have had family stuff going on since, and haven't had a chance to further tune. I have the timing map close, but want to get on a dyno. The only one I can find was booked for almost 2 months out. So I reserved my slot and am waiting for it. It's going to cost a pretty penny for a timing map, I know that much. Nothing I can do about it.
For me, fuel is the easy part, ignition is not. I'll get there. If some of the MS coding guys would make an auto tune function for ignition, that would be ideal. Just maximize the accel (or MAP) at any load cell on the map. Maybe there's a reason they haven't done this, IDK.
The van runs very well, but warm up tweaks still need to be done (and it's tough to do that until the fuel curve and timing curve are "close"). It's been tough because it was illegal to drive without the smog cert, but at least now I can get some progress on it. Will be a lot easier when school starts in 2 weeks, and I have some uninterrupted time.
I got the 2nd baro mod done to the MS, so that's no longer an issue.
I have had family stuff going on since, and haven't had a chance to further tune. I have the timing map close, but want to get on a dyno. The only one I can find was booked for almost 2 months out. So I reserved my slot and am waiting for it. It's going to cost a pretty penny for a timing map, I know that much. Nothing I can do about it.
For me, fuel is the easy part, ignition is not. I'll get there. If some of the MS coding guys would make an auto tune function for ignition, that would be ideal. Just maximize the accel (or MAP) at any load cell on the map. Maybe there's a reason they haven't done this, IDK.
The van runs very well, but warm up tweaks still need to be done (and it's tough to do that until the fuel curve and timing curve are "close"). It's been tough because it was illegal to drive without the smog cert, but at least now I can get some progress on it. Will be a lot easier when school starts in 2 weeks, and I have some uninterrupted time.
- Piledriver
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Re: Share yor AFR table.
(Guess)
They probably haven't done it since getting it wrong can kill engines, and they don't want to own that.
Fuel has good feedback from the WBO2, so that's comparatively easy and relatively much safer.
As long as the lambda delay is set up close its very consistent in normal driving.
The stock ignition curves are a good starting point, I'm pretty sure you have those down, the curves for the Digi chips you had made should be a great start.
You will probably need to run far more timing everywhere in SLC.
They probably haven't done it since getting it wrong can kill engines, and they don't want to own that.
Fuel has good feedback from the WBO2, so that's comparatively easy and relatively much safer.
As long as the lambda delay is set up close its very consistent in normal driving.
The stock ignition curves are a good starting point, I'm pretty sure you have those down, the curves for the Digi chips you had made should be a great start.
You will probably need to run far more timing everywhere in SLC.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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Re: Share yor AFR table.
Do I really have to run more timing for elevation, since my timing map is already load compensated (more timing with light load)? From what I understand at elevation the actual load cells are simply shifted. WOT here for example, is 85kPa. Maybe it will be 90 in Winter with the cold air.
Perhaps I don't understand it completely though. I do drive to 11k' on occasion, but I haven't in this thing YET, to see where it idles and where WOT is up there. Or at sea level. Idle MAP is anywhere from 35-45kPa, depending on the temperature (Summertime) at 800RPM.
I am focusing on getting this thing 100% for here at 4500' first, then I can tweak all the things which modify the tables. 1 more month til' dyno.....
Perhaps I don't understand it completely though. I do drive to 11k' on occasion, but I haven't in this thing YET, to see where it idles and where WOT is up there. Or at sea level. Idle MAP is anywhere from 35-45kPa, depending on the temperature (Summertime) at 800RPM.
I am focusing on getting this thing 100% for here at 4500' first, then I can tweak all the things which modify the tables. 1 more month til' dyno.....
- Piledriver
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Re: Share yor AFR table.
I suppose you are right, and IIRC you have the second baro sensor, it should be pretty close.
FWIW here's my timing table, goes with the AFR table (adds timing in lean burn area >2600 and >83kpa.
from: 2L 914 heads on a 1.8, 2l runners and widened wbx plenum.
web73, 8.4:1 CR. Relatively fast burning chambers, and so knock proof I cannot make it knock on regular, despite abusing it trying to test the 2 channel knock setup.
Probably close to WBX timing wise.
FWIW here's my timing table, goes with the AFR table (adds timing in lean burn area >2600 and >83kpa.
from: 2L 914 heads on a 1.8, 2l runners and widened wbx plenum.
web73, 8.4:1 CR. Relatively fast burning chambers, and so knock proof I cannot make it knock on regular, despite abusing it trying to test the 2 channel knock setup.
Probably close to WBX timing wise.
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Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
- panel
- Posts: 4200
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Re: Share yor AFR table.
Started a similar thread back in 2010 if you want to take a peek ?
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=132530&hilit=afr+table
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=132530&hilit=afr+table
Last edited by panel on Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
'65 Bus with a JDM Subaru EJ20 Turbo
Built by Germans powered by Japanese and brought together by Canadians
Built by Germans powered by Japanese and brought together by Canadians
- gtmdriver
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- panel
- Posts: 4200
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Re: Share yor AFR table.
Do you ever see 15 , 10 or 5 on your MAP table when you drive around or look through a log file ?
'65 Bus with a JDM Subaru EJ20 Turbo
Built by Germans powered by Japanese and brought together by Canadians
Built by Germans powered by Japanese and brought together by Canadians
- Fiatdude
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Re: Share yor AFR table.
Piledriver -- Why would you run your timing up to 60+* on decal????
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Re: Share yor AFR table.
John,
I have an extra table to pull timing with reduced barometric pressure. Without that extra timing being pulled it is shifted down into my high vacuum advance cruise zone at normal altitude and will ping at high (low pressure) altitude.
Fuel is more or less automatic for barometric correction with a vac referenced FPR. I recently zereod out my fuel barometric table and just let things land where they land in the main table. I do need to add a little back in. I actually need to ++ increase fuel in my barometric fuel table to not run overly lean since I'm running way down in low pressures at altitude.
I have an extra table to pull timing with reduced barometric pressure. Without that extra timing being pulled it is shifted down into my high vacuum advance cruise zone at normal altitude and will ping at high (low pressure) altitude.
Fuel is more or less automatic for barometric correction with a vac referenced FPR. I recently zereod out my fuel barometric table and just let things land where they land in the main table. I do need to add a little back in. I actually need to ++ increase fuel in my barometric fuel table to not run overly lean since I'm running way down in low pressures at altitude.
Steve
My Baja Build
My Baja Build
- gtmdriver
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Re: Share yor AFR table.
Frequently according to the hit table when using VEAL (I use the same scale on my VE table).panel wrote:Do you ever see 15 , 10 or 5 on your MAP table when you drive around or look through a log file ?
It spends a lot of time operating in that region.