Converted to Microsquirt, need help trying to get it started

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bladerunner80
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Converted to Microsquirt, need help trying to get it started

Post by bladerunner80 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:35 pm

Hi all, I have a 1966 VW Bug with a 1776cc, dual dellorto, ignition only microsquirt v3 setup (VW four tower wasted spark coil). I finally finished getting everything hooked up and wired in, but I can't get it to fire. I've got air, got fuel (with an electric fuel pump). Checked the sparkplug leads, they're good, checked connection to the coil, that's good (verified via an earlier post I made about VW four tower wasted spark coilpack). When cranking, I sometimes get some coughing/backfiring. Seems that this primarily happens on cylinders 1 & 2. I attached my tune and added some pics as well. Any help/tips would be greatly appreciated. Been working on this car for 6 years and I'm ready to start driving it!

Thanks,
Bill
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ps2375
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Re: Converted to Microsquirt, need help trying to get it started

Post by ps2375 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:37 pm

A "MicroSquirt" or a MS1 or 2 on a v3 board, there is a difference. Do the coils have an ignition module for each or are you going direct fire?

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Re: Converted to Microsquirt, need help trying to get it started

Post by Clonebug » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:25 pm

Do you have a crank trigger and if so is it set up correctly???

The missing tooth has to lead TDC by 90 degrees I think...at least with EDIS it was that way.

You have to confirm that the sensor is set at the correct clearance too. Also remember that the cylinder numbers on the coil are not necessarily the same order as for the air cooled VW engine.
You need to confirm the coils are hooked correctly to the two signal wires on the ecu and also that the plug wires are paired correctly on the dual post coil for the wasted spark.

The firing order for the engine is 1432 so cylinders 1 and 3 are on coil (A) and cylinders 2 and 4 are on coil (B).
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.

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Re: Converted to Microsquirt, need help trying to get it started

Post by Piledriver » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:46 pm

Welcome to the STF!!!

First: You have B&G firmware loaded. You need to fix that, immediately, if not sooner.
No one here can help you if you run B&G as nobody here runs it... It hasn't been maintained in ages and is ~utterly featureless. MS2E works differently, and not just a little bit...

B&G firmware is a total waste of time, and I don't know why they still load that junk by default. DIYAutotune will merrily load MS2E for free, but you have to know about it to ask.

We need full details on your hardware setup, we're all probably assuming a VW 4 tower logic drive coil and a 36-1 wheel on the crank with a Hall sensor, as that's the "sane" way to do it, but that's an assumption.
Lets not guess.
If you are trying to trigger off the distributor, life is going to suck for awhile.
(Unless you have installed a missing tooth trigger wheel in it, then its easy)

Purge from memory absolutely everything you have read (megamanual etc) to date and go to msextra.com and start over.
Seriously, this will save a lot of time.

The firmware is a little different for the uS than a std MS2 "box" unit, although you can load the wrong version to either, it just won't work quite right if it doesn't match the hardware. Its well labelled and there are full instructions how to install it.
Once MSextra is installed, updating the firmware is jumperless... No need to open the box up once upgraded.

Needs to be the latest stable version, Once MS2-extra is loaded, updating it is very easy, the latest beta TunerStudios supposedly have a built in firmware loader.

Pull the plugs and pinch off the gas line if possible so you can crank it and check the timing.
As mentioned, the firing order numbers on the coil is probably wrong for an ACVW. Takes seconds to fix.

MS2e or 3 does not care what angle the missing tooth is at but around 80BTDC is recommended as the engine isn''t accelerating much or fighting the starter at that point, so it can provide a bit more accuracy.

Set the timing to "fixed" and about 10 BTDC, hook up the timing light and tweak the Tooth #1 Angle (deg BTDC) until the timing agrees with the fixed timing setpoint. Careful with this, get it right and you will never have to do it again.
Last edited by Piledriver on Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:15 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Converted to Microsquirt, need help trying to get it started

Post by bladerunner80 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:57 pm

Yep, Microsquirt, specifically "V3" (according to the documentation). The VW four tower coil pack is wasted spark and has a built in igniter. I was originally going to use an EDIS setup coupled with the microsquirt, but later I found information on this forum that using the VW coil pack would simplify my installation.

This is the coil that I am using, the pic referenced below comes from the Microsquirt manual.
Coil.jpg

I've checked the VR sensor alignment a few times, should be spot on. My trigger wheel and sensor came from Mario at The Dub Shop and he modified my crank pulley, so I know its done right.
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Piledriver
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Re: Converted to Microsquirt, need help trying to get it started

Post by Piledriver » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:19 am

OK, you have sane hardware, make sure the sensor gap is ~1mm, and get ms2extra loaded.(for the microsquirt)
You will probably have to install the "boot" jumper to update to ms2extra, but its the last time you will probably ever need to do that.

You might be able to at least get it firing now if you reorder the plug wires tho, 1/3 and 2/4 pairs fire.
I'm not sure if the "test modes" exist in B&G... they would allow firing one channel of the coil so you can see what is what.
like I said, literally no one here runs B&G, past the first power on, anyway.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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Re: Converted to Microsquirt, need help trying to get it started

Post by bladerunner80 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:25 am

Thanks for the response Clonebug. I'm fairly confident the crank trigger is setup correctly. I bought the sensor, bracket and cranktrigger from Mario at The Dub Shop. He also machined my pulley and installed the crank trigger.

Just to be safe, I will go back and triple check that the sensor is still in correct alignment. A few months ago when I was wiring all this stuff up, I posted some questions about wiring the VW Wasted Spark coil pack and had questions regarding the plug wire order. This is how I wired it up: cylinder 1 to post 1, cylinder 4 to post 2, cylinder 3 to post 4, and cylinder 2 to post 3. Based on your comment, sounds like I got that part correct. I also double checked the leads today just to be sure and that's how I have them hooked up.

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Re: Converted to Microsquirt, need help trying to get it started

Post by bladerunner80 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:29 am

Thanks Piledriver, great info there! I'll get to work on your tips and get the firmware upgraded on my microsquirt box and see if I can get this thing started!

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Re: Converted to Microsquirt, need help trying to get it started

Post by Piledriver » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:44 am

Good luck!
Be aware that you may have flooded it already on a couple of holes if it wasn't hitting, a great deal of frustration can happen when its a non-MS issue.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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Re: Converted to Microsquirt, need help trying to get it started

Post by Clonebug » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:37 am

If you have mario's crank trigger it is more than likely close enough to at least start and run.
It will be either on or just a couple degrees off which will only be an issue if you are boosted.
An engine not firing is usually something in the wiring not hooked up correctly.
Go through all the wires again and confirm the are not hooked up backwards or something.
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.

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Re: Converted to Microsquirt, need help trying to get it started

Post by bladerunner80 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:58 pm

Thanks Clonebug. I'm going to go through the list Piledriver gave me and get the correct firmware loaded and read through the guide. I'll go back through the wiring as well, never hurts to double check everything. I'll report back next weekend if I've made some progress!

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Re: Converted to Microsquirt, need help trying to get it started

Post by Piledriver » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:27 pm

Also use the "test modes" to fire injectors and coils to make sure you got it right.
(pull the fuses while loading firmware)
Also, for setting timing, pull the plugs so the starter doesn't have to work and can spin faster.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

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