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Re: Edis on ms1 v2.2

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 2:49 pm
by DeathBySnuSnu
I went back through the required fuel and number of cyl settings.
The ts tach is reading correct now.
The constants are on 4 cyl but the required fuel was still on 2cyl.

So it looks like the ignition is up.

Working on how to do the dual table now.

Re: Edis on ms1 v2.2

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 3:44 pm
by DeathBySnuSnu
I think I have seen that old MsnS before.
As it was not extra I did not take it to heart.

It has developed beyond that point.
Table switch is between 1 and 3 and dual table is 1 and 2 simultaneously.

I have not found an official document on how it is in extra.
What I had seen was a write up on a forum.
Now I can not find it.

Thanks again for the help.
Getting there......

Re: Edis on ms1 v2.2

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 4:03 pm
by DeathBySnuSnu
How much/what all do you typically turn on/off with the fuel pump relay?

The whole reason it did not work is the wiring diagram is wrong.
It might not would have run because of bad settings in ts, but it would have turned on and tried.

If there is no rpm input the pump relay turns off. As the diagram has the other parts on that relay the coil shut off also. No pip no rpm input to turn the relay back on. It looks like the pip goes nearly completely to ground when unpowered. That made the software limit rpm and tryed to turn the ms back on. As soon as it turned back on and saw no rpm it shut back off. Blinking relay and maxed out tach.

Re: Edis on ms1 v2.2

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 9:05 pm
by Piledriver
Really short history---MS2E bears no code familial relationship with B&G, MS3 is all based on MS2Es C code, ~no B&G but they own the copyright by agreement.
With MS1E/MS1 B&G there was code sharing, because no sane person wants to rewrite assembly code.

I agree, the schematic is wrong for EDIS.

In a typical setup, you have a main relay that powers the MS.(and isolates it when key off, required)
The MS power relay (on) would enable everything else (relay coil power side) and ECU would control as appropriate (ground side)
The fuel pump relay, when enabled, likely also enables the coil power relay, or just feeds both.

With direct control, sensors (including tach in, Hall sensor or VR amps) are all powered if the ECU is on, so it works.

...BUT (as you have discovered) the EDIS power relay needs power control off the main relay to work, rather than fuel pump as an interlock, or no tach signal to get the ball rolling. Makes sense.
Otherwise you would have EDIS power only during the FP prime.(assuming MS1e even does that)

BTW, I suggest a ferrite on those power lines, at least, near the noise sources, with as many turns of wire as will fit..

Re: Edis on ms1 v2.2

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 9:53 pm
by DeathBySnuSnu
Where for the ferrite?
Any + side wires?
Or the power to edis?
Power to ms?
Or everything?

The entire harness is from scratch.
It is apart right now, so I can do whatever to it now.

The edis, ms, relays, fuse box and fuel pump are all within 3 inches of each other.

The coil is about 18 inches away from that.

The injectors are the farthest away. One side about 24 inches, the other about 36 inches away.

The alternator is a one wire and it is not in the harness and goes directly to the battery.

Yes I understand ms1 is written in assember.
The others are what? Probably C?

I am suprised that I did not run across the power on requirements for the edis. I dont remember that from anywhere.

And yes ms1 extra does start the pump at power on, then whatever primer pulses then powers off the pump waiting on ignition input. I dont thing the original code turned off the pump waiting on ign input.

Re: Edis on ms1 v2.2

Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 11:13 pm
by Piledriver
I put split ferrites at the coil power feed, and at the fuel pump, and one on the input to the ECU relay.
I also have separate power feeds off the battery for fuel pump and coil relays with their own ferrites, hoping to keep the noise out of the ECU feed. One on the switched side of the coil wires might help too.

I have yet another on my AC fans and heater motor feeds, and AC clutch, as I was getting intermittent resets as they cycled off. (diodes would probably help some here too, those are all ~huge inductors and kick back when switched off)
Ah, one more on wiper power.

Ferrites are cheap and can do no harm, and the split ferrites are handy for troubleshooting as they are removable/reusable. Digikey has a huge assortment.

They are not magic, but seem like it sometimes, as they can make the weird go away.
Excessive use is likely evidence of paranoia, but I largely fight weird for a living.

I probably overdo them, but maybe have 10 bucks worth in the car.

Some folks think it overkill, but I have equipment at work that has dozens of them located everywhere imaginable, from the factory.

Re: Edis on ms1 v2.2

Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 6:37 pm
by DeathBySnuSnu
And thanks again for the help.

I can not remember ever using a ferrite on DC.

Every once in a while if I hafta put a plc or touchscreen in a cabinet that has motor starters. But all AC stuff there.

Dug through the old junk today looking for a few.
Man what a trip down memory lane. A lot of it I could not remember at all.

Re: Edis on ms1 v2.2

Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 11:26 pm
by Piledriver
Switching power supplies can be great noise sources.
So are electric motors and large solenoids.
Spark plugs are quite excellent as well.

The problem with DC is that everyone designs using it assuming it's a nice, smooth, constant voltage.
In the real world that typically isn't happening.

Re: Edis on ms1 v2.2

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:52 pm
by DeathBySnuSnu
Sorry for all the dead pic links.
Not gonna pay the 399 ransom to photbucket.

Re: Edis on ms1 v2.2

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:38 pm
by DeathBySnuSnu
Had the coils backward and the tps ground magically disappeared.....
Flipped the coil wires on the pack and skint and vice gripped the tps ground to the intake.

Then started tight up. ... p=drivesdk

Re: Edis on ms1 v2.2

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:12 pm
by Piledriver
Idles well for a first pass, esp considering lumpy cam etc.
You may find you need to pull some fuel from the default start/warmup etc curves, but alpha-n may not have the issue.

Re: Edis on ms1 v2.2

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:48 pm
by DeathBySnuSnu
The absolute very first start is over in
Vw speed and drag race
Where I was inquiring about headers.

This is after a couple warm up cycles and it is loosening up a bit.

Still though...
It starts right up.

I have a lot of tuning to go.