What are the chances?

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DeathBySnuSnu
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What are the chances?

Post by DeathBySnuSnu » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:09 pm

The motorcycle my throttle bodies came off of was a MAP set up.
The bodies all have a small restricted port. They were all Tee together down to a single hose and plugged into a MAP.

I do have the motorcycle MAP but research says it is the same range as the MS unit on the board.

So I made a vacuum accumulator can today.
The one pair together and to the can.
And the other pair the same.
MS to the can.

Sounds like a reasonable plan.
But I also have an fk10 cam.

Of course these bodies at 44mm came off a 1200cc engine with 150hp. Had to be big cam and high strung.

So.....
Whatcha think?
Will I have enough vacuum span to actually use the MAP.
15079406012770.jpg
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Piledriver
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Re: What are the chances?

Post by Piledriver » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:13 pm

In ITB mode yes, but IIRC you still have a MS1, so ~the best I can do is wish you luck and suggest a can.
Best you can do is feed it into a central "can" and read from that, about 3-400CC "can" PVC works to try.Some folks have used a cheap fuel filter as a "can" with success.

ITB mode is a blend---uses alpha-N at low RPM and MAP at higher RPMs where you have more usable signal.
Supported by MS2E & MS3.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

DeathBySnuSnu
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Re: What are the chances?

Post by DeathBySnuSnu » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:27 pm

That can is about 175cc.

I have always planned on being alpha n.

No itb mode.
I wonder how the motorcycle did it with half the cc and with a map.

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Piledriver
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Re: What are the chances?

Post by Piledriver » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:26 pm

DeathBySnuSnu wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:27 pm
That can is about 175cc.

I have always planned on being alpha n.

No itb mode.
I wonder how the motorcycle did it with half the cc and with a map.
Very likely it also has a TPS... So it probably ran something like MS2E/MS3s "ITB mode".
The only other alternative would be very fast synchronous sampling with variable delay.

Simpler/cheaper/easier usually wins so I'd bet the former.

There i also a few multi-sensor and capacitor setups with diodes to best capture the minimum values, might work with MS1, but I'd strongly steer you at a MS3 daughterboard before I'd recommend trying that.
I, for one, regularly embrace our new robot overlords, as I am the guy fixing the robots...

DeathBySnuSnu
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Re: What are the chances?

Post by DeathBySnuSnu » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:56 am

I have been asking around and searching eBay for 3 years now.
Searching for a used unit/board only for less than full retail.
A ms2 daughter card.
A ms2 board/box
A Microsquirt
A ms3 board/box.
So far I have seen a couple deals on a ms1 but I have that already. Any ms2 or 3 that I have found either has a lot of other stuff with it and/or they want more than full retail because it is assembled and proven to work.

So.

Then if I were to buy new retail.
A Microsquirt
Or a ms3.

As it stands I am going to try the alpha n.
But hook up the map and see what I get with the big cam.

Back when.....with the carbed 2110 and 3.88 r&p the position of the throttle nearly exactly matched the load.
It physically took longer to shift to the next gear than it took to pull the gear. It was so darned twitchy.
I eventually put a 3.44 gear in it. That calmed it down a bit as far as twitchy. Made it somewhat calmer because where the cam came in at was further away. I could blubber around and never get the motor on the cam on the country back roads like going to the church. It was not soooo scary to my wife to ride with me.
But it still hit it hard if you wanted. I could easily finish 3rd to red line before the end of the highway on ramp somewhere around (no speedo) 110 to 115 mph.

All that said.....
If I am gassing on it alpha n or otherwise it should not matter. But lugging it around those very few times the wife will ride it could matter.

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Re: What are the chances?

Post by Piledriver » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:13 pm

Consider just buying a MS3 daughterboard rather than a MS2 daughtercard.
Much more capable.

Just because its only "supported on V3 mainboards" does not mean it won't work on earlier revs.
They just don't want to write more documentation to cover more variants.

I have tested it on first group buy V1.01 mainboard. It works just fine.
I run it on a V2.2 daily driver for many years, 80 miles a day, most days.
I don't own a v3 mainboard.

I can be made to fit in the MS1 box, you just have to cut a custom case end cap.
That should be trivial for you.
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Re: What are the chances?

Post by DeathBySnuSnu » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:15 am

I had seen where you put one on an older main board.
But.
I did not realize that it would go that far back.
That is definitely another possibility.

I have even thought of the bare Microsquirt board.
Build it in a box with a quad spark and whatever other add ons...all in my ms1 box modified a bit.

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Re: What are the chances?

Post by UKLuke72 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:21 am

Is that Donald Trump's head? Can you bash it in a little :D

DeathBySnuSnu
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Re: What are the chances?

Post by DeathBySnuSnu » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:40 am

I think you are talking about the curly haired lap dog.

Ain't even my dog. It is the kids pet. But I sit down and and there it is.....in my lap.

I can agree about Trump. It is a sad thing that this is the best we had to choose from. It has been several election cycles since having a decent candidate.
Give him 7 more years he very well could be just as bad as the last President was.
What's it been....20 plus years since we have had a leader that advanced all of America instead of one half or the other?

DeathBySnuSnu
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Re: What are the chances?

Post by DeathBySnuSnu » Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:38 pm

Ok.....a follow up on the tuning.
Several developments.
I was getting close on the tune on alha n. Even got on a dyno.
15234092330633.jpg
Now then.....
I had built anti reversion can headers. But did not put the final cone on the collector cans. Why?....I liked the way it sounded.
With the fk10 cam and lots of tuning trial and error I did get a lot of the soggy bottom end out of it.
But then got to wondering what would the little cone would do. Well it turns out to be a lot. Putting that cone on blew the tune and I virtually had to start over.
15247902921060.jpg
Yes that little cone.....the inside of that elbow does have the step and nipple of a reversion can.....changed the world.
I doubt any more peak hp but gobs more pull. Almost no "off cam" bog. Definitely a difference between off and on.

So after getting close with the tune again......I decided to see what the vacuum is doing now. Well guess what.....enough vacuum and definition to work the map sensor.

So then I switched to speed density and started over again.
Now even more torque and even more fun to drive. The drivability is so much more fun. On alpha n bogging it was problematic. But I am so light that it did not matter much.
Now though.....take off in 3rd...meh....no problem.

I have not and probably will not get back on a dyno.....as I smeared 3-4 synchro hub last time.
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Steve Arndt
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Re: What are the chances?

Post by Steve Arndt » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:39 am

Nice. Can't say enough how important paying attention to anti reversion is. From the first part of the intake all the way out the tail pipes.

DeathBySnuSnu
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Re: What are the chances?

Post by DeathBySnuSnu » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:48 pm

The tuning has been going on.
Some hard to get to places still to do.

https://youtu.be/bw3kAjt7iUQ

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andy198712
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Re: What are the chances?

Post by andy198712 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 1:21 pm

that thing is just crazy!
i struggled with SD tune on my GSXR itbs but didn't try a canister, just had a restrictor on the nipples as you do and another adjustable one near the ECU, but it was all running around 85-100KPA for me and a bit too jumpy to really fine tune it exactly how i wanted, thats not to say it was underivable, it drove well.
congrats on getting it sorted!

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