will 914 brakes fit on a beetle?

scrawl · Post by **scrawl** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 4:18 am

i have a 914 parts car... i was thinking of pulling the front discs & calipers off for use on the ball joint front end of my '70 bug. are they a direct fit on the vw spindles?

pEtE

[This message has been edited by scrawl (edited 12-18-2001).]

Michael Ghia · Post by **Michael Ghia** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 5:43 am

I don't think they'll bolt on. You'd have to make adaptors for the calipers.
The disks are the same size (or close to) as stock Beetle disks so there's not much point with them.
The best caliper that I have fitted to a stock Beetle disk is the Talbot Horizon Girling caliper.
MG

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Modification is a form of Art.

scrawl · Post by **scrawl** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 6:26 am

...should have said i want to convert my front beetle drums to the 914 discs.

i am sure i can come up with brackets for the calipers if the rotors will fit on, but i'm not going to waste a lot of time on the project. just have the parts so may as well use them if i can...

thanks for the help!
pete

Richard Olafsson · Post by **Richard Olafsson** » Tue Dec 18, 2001 6:43 am

You would be best off using stock bug discs on the front (maybe upgrading the caliper) and adapting the 914 rears to the rear of your bug...

Rich

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http://www.ricola.co.uk

scrawl · Post by **scrawl** » Thu Jan 24, 2002 5:29 am

...and i found out yesterday that they DO fit, the rotors slide right on to my spindles.

Griznant · Post by **Griznant** » Thu Jan 24, 2002 7:06 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Michael Ghia:
I don't think they'll bolt on. You'd have to make adaptors for the calipers.
The disks are the same size (or close to) as stock Beetle disks so there's not much point with them.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is in the U.S. because none of our Bugs came with discs. So, we have to either do the disc brake conversion to KG brakes, or another avenue. Figuring out how upgrade to the 914 parts would be helpful from the standpoint that they would be an upgrade over the stock drums, and he's got the 914 parts already.

However, it's probably easier just to buy a disc brake kit for $200 ($425 with dropped spindles) and go that route.

Later,

G

Michael Ghia · Post by **Michael Ghia** » Thu Jan 24, 2002 8:18 am

Sorry, I keep forgetting that you guys never got disk brakes

Definatley a worth while upgrade from drums.
MG

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Modification is a form of Art.

scrawl · Post by **scrawl** » Thu Jan 24, 2002 12:48 pm

yes its true, 4 wheel drum over here...

my complete reason for asking is i have 2 cars, a baja-daily driver, and a project that most of the other 914 parts (tranny, motor, guages, etc) are going in.

project already has the disc conversion so i'd have two sets of brakes. now that i know the parts fit i can slap them on my baja with just the $50 adapters - better than a $200-$250 kit.

tarnx · Post by **tarnx** » Thu Jan 31, 2002 10:38 pm

It is interesting that the disks bolt right up. I was investigating this a while ago and the consensus was they were different. Nothing like having the actual parts in hand. I believe the 914/6 had Porsche pattern rotors, which means you can get a set of factory disks which bolt up Porsche rims. If the calipers bolt up too, (you may have to use Ghia spindles) then you can upgrade to the 320i calipers so popular with the 914 crowd.

Michael Ghia · Post by **Michael Ghia** » Fri Feb 01, 2002 2:31 am

Tarnx,
I think the spindles on the front of a 914-6 are just early 911 spindles and brakes so they wouldn't bolt up. The rear disks should though although finding 914-6 stuff is a bit of a nightmare!
MG

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Modification is a form of Art.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » Fri Feb 01, 2002 4:03 am

The 914 suspension was based on the 911.
The 944 suspension was based on the Bug (only the rear for a nonSuper).

This is why I've said time and time again, 914 brakes aren't the way to go...944 are...

Man we need a archive here

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Superman · Post by **Superman** » Fri Feb 01, 2002 4:05 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by scrawl:
i have a 914 parts car... i was thinking of pulling the front discs & calipers off for use on the ball joint front end of my '70 bug. are they a direct fit on the vw spindles?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pete, since you have this car in stock for parts you might be interested to know what one of the aftermarket rear discs kits uses the 914 calipers and discs...but I don't think you can get the adapters unless you buy the whole kit.

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tarnx · Post by **tarnx** » Fri Feb 01, 2002 7:48 am

Thanks for clearing that up. Every time I went looking for info on the 914 brakes I hit a brick wall. If they are based on the 911 no wonder. I was looking at the wrong model. I was looking at the 914 parts more as a cheap upgrade to the bug, although all the same parts are available for the bug aftermarket. If they had to be adapted and the brakes weren't any better than the aftermarket it makes better sense to go with something which bolts on and you can get spare parts readily.
Here is something I picked up reading the MBT site. My conclusion does not necessarily hold water, but it does make sense. MBT offers various upgrades based on various models of Porsche.
Once you have adapted to the 944 hubs front and rear, you can use various model combinations to increase your braking. By various combinations I mean the complete front and rear setup for a specific model, not mixing the front setup from one model and the rear setup from another. That kind of mixing could cause severe problems.
For example, you have a standard 944 setup with the 944 rotors and calipers front and rear. You could upgrade to the turbo brakes by just installing the turbo rotors and calipers front and rear. Since I know the standard and turbo rotors are a different thickness you have to also use the turbo calipers. A standard rotor with a turbo caliper will allow the pistons in the caliper to come out to far and perhaps lock the brakes at a bad time. If you go with a turbo front setup you need to go with a turbo rear setup. The reason is braking balance. They were designed to work together. Some of the Porsche brakes used engineering to balance the brakes and others used a proportional valve system.
Other models based on the 944 have even better brakes which may be adapted. Other problems may exist such as caliper adapters, changing the offset, longer studs, etc.
Don't flame me on this as it is a possibility and not a fact. It can get us started on a brake upgrade for the next generation past the stock 944 setup. I already have my setup on the way, but I am looking for ways to improve it.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » Fri Feb 01, 2002 1:33 pm

Sorry but that would not work. Look at the pics more closely at the MBT site. The 944 brakes have the hubs on the outside of the disc. The 944T have the hubs on the inside.

944: spindle>disc>hub
944T: spindle>hub>disc

The caliper offset for the mounting is different. Yes true a 944T caliper will bolt to 944 spindle but the hub and rotor combo will not work. Also, if you are thinking of bolting a 944T spindle to a Superbug strut (like you can do with the 944T) that won't work either. The bolt pattern is different.

This is the whole conception of MBT...they machine those beautiful hubs that have the correct offset and make there own adapter hats (caliper mount bracket). In the pics it looks kinda simple to do what you are talking about but with all the parts in hand it's quite different. Just wanted to post this before someone wastes a bunch of money.

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tarnx · Post by **tarnx** » Fri Feb 01, 2002 5:38 pm

Thats why this forum is so important. So you don't waste money on things which don't work. Thanks for the input.