EDIS Spark Plug Gap?

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KoenigsTiger
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EDIS Spark Plug Gap?

Post by KoenigsTiger » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:41 pm

Hey Everyone, :D

I am getting close to running EDIS with MS2 3.0 . I know that it is a dated system, but hey so is the Bug :)

I did have it run in Limp Home mode. Just curious what spark plug gap I should run??? Naturally aspirated, DP 1641cc Engle W100, stock heads, lightened flywheel, stock exhaust, 30/31 Brosol carb.... nothing too wild.

Thank you very much, :D
Gene

KoenigsTiger
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Re: EDIS Spark Plug Gap?

Post by KoenigsTiger » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:43 pm

Anyone running EDIS?

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Chip Birks
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Re: EDIS Spark Plug Gap?

Post by Chip Birks » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:02 pm

KoenigsTiger wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:43 pm
Anyone running EDIS?
Pretty much nope. A quick google search suggested .020" a few times.

KoenigsTiger
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Re: EDIS Spark Plug Gap?

Post by KoenigsTiger » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:40 pm

Lol, I guess that's my own fault for running old stuff... :oops:

NGK's website says that 1992 Ford Escort 1.9L, (where these parts came from) gap is 0.054"

I don't know much about spark plug gaps.

I read somewhere that increasing the gap on stock beetle components will shorten their life span. I do understand that these are not stock VW parts.

Does smaller gap have an adverse impact? Any one want to enlighten me on spark plug gaps? I googled a bit, but did not see good explanations...

Thank you, :D
Gene

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sideshow
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Re: EDIS Spark Plug Gap?

Post by sideshow » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:18 pm

A stock ACVW gap doesn't do any harm, its a bridged gap or open that cause grief.
I'm lazy and would treat the when new Ford gap as the upper wear limit.
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.

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GS guy
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Re: EDIS Spark Plug Gap?

Post by GS guy » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:23 am

Most later model "high energy" ignition systems run around a 0.050" plug gap. Old points and condenser ignitions need closer to 0.020", they can't reliably fire a wider gap. The larger gap is preferable as it will will provide better fuel burn and better fuel mileage, so I'd start out around 0.045" and see how it runs. If you don't get any misfiring, run it. That said, turbocharged engines generally need a smaller gap even with a higher energy ignition for reliable fuel burn under high boost. YMMV! :)

KoenigsTiger
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Re: EDIS Spark Plug Gap?

Post by KoenigsTiger » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:41 am

Alright, thank you for your replies! :D

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GS guy
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Re: EDIS Spark Plug Gap?

Post by GS guy » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:59 am

You can always make the gap smaller if you notice misfiring, but that can also be due to the fuel mixture (A/F ratio). Too-lean mixtures can cause misfiring too. Balancing the mixture with good ignition firing is the trick. It's all part of the "tuning" phase when you get a new engine running - tweaking the mixture and spark to get the best running. Nice advantage of the high energy ignition is it can fire a leaner mixture (like you want under idle and cruise conditions) for best fuel mileage - watch your O2 monitor. A wider plug gap helps to ignite a leaner mixture (or poorer air-fuel mixture distribution in the chamber) - ALA the ignition system has enough balls to fire it! You don't get that tuning "option" when running a distributor and points ignition - that needs a small gap and rich-er mixture.
This is all also somewhat dependent on general combustion chamber design as well, so some tweaking and tuning may be in order to get the best running.

KoenigsTiger
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Re: EDIS Spark Plug Gap?

Post by KoenigsTiger » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:41 pm

Sounds good, I'll play around with it.

Thank you,
Gene

Clonebug
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Re: EDIS Spark Plug Gap?

Post by Clonebug » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:01 pm

When I ran EDIS I set my plug gaps at .028 just like stock.....never any problem carbed or FI.
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.

KoenigsTiger
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Re: EDIS Spark Plug Gap?

Post by KoenigsTiger » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:48 am

I'll run with stock .028 as a starting point, see how that works out. When I first got it running in lip home mode, it idled and revved in neutral like a new car... compared too stock components and 009 :evil:

Anyone wants to share their spark tables?

Thank you,
Gene

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Re: EDIS Spark Plug Gap?

Post by Clonebug » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:53 am

KoenigsTiger wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:48 am
I'll run with stock .028 as a starting point, see how that works out. When I first got it running in lip home mode, it idled and revved in neutral like a new car... compared too stock components and 009 :evil:

Anyone wants to share their spark tables?

Thank you,
Gene
Spark tables are engine specific and what I have on a turbo engine at 22-24 lbs will not be what another engine NA or mildly boosted would need.

I have found an engine will run on almost anything.

I start with idle at between 8-12 degrees and 3000 rpm at 30 degrees then blend it in between. There are graphs of many Bosch distributors you can follow if you want to use that to start with. It depends on what you have for ignition control and if you use a MAP signal.
If you have the ability to adjust fuel mixtures you can run more advance at light cruise.

I myself run about 36 degrees advance at cruise right now but I'm not going for mileage.
I run dual tables to extend my fuel and ignition map but the cruise area is still quite small and depends on engine load.

Don't be afraid to experiment with it. you can't really hurt it if you keep it safe in the high load areas and listen carefully for detonation.

When we put my buggy on a dyno this past winter we only adjusted the ignition a slight amount in the mid rpm and boost range ot take out a slight dip in the torque graph and also added advance at full boost due to really low intake temps since I added the intercooler.

Post a few pics of your engine setup along with specs on what you are running so we have a better idea of what you are running.

I'll dig up some old ignition maps of my ms-1 if I can get them without screwing up my Tunerstudio in the next couple days.

Start with an 009 setup and drive it while adjusting it here and there. You will be able to feel the difference and if you don't..... put it back where it was.
The great thing about it is you can adjust it wherever you want and don't have to whine and cry like all the guys on thesamba that have distributor issues.
I've been running MS-1 and MS-2 for 5 years now and never ever want to see a distributor again except for stealing the drive dog off of them for Mario.
I have about 45 junk ones already that I have done that to....... :wink: :lol: 8)
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.

KoenigsTiger
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Re: EDIS Spark Plug Gap?

Post by KoenigsTiger » Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:22 pm

Sorry for the late reply, :oops:

I drove around for a week on the EDIS "Limp Home Mode", short in town trips...

Once I got MS 2 hooked up, I noticed quite a difference in acceleration. In Limp home, it differently did not accelerate as well, locked to 10* advance.

I found a few spark tables here, modded one and this is what I run at the moment.

I am just running the the 30/31 carb at the moment. Still gathering parts for the fuel side of the conversion...

Thank you, :D
Gene
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KoenigsTiger
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Re: EDIS Spark Plug Gap?

Post by KoenigsTiger » Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:01 am

Lots of tidying up still required... Work in progress :roll:
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Clonebug
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Re: EDIS Spark Plug Gap?

Post by Clonebug » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:58 pm

Looks good to me Gene...!!

I have found there is no reason to run at the ragged edge on timing.

You can almost feel how the engine reacts to timing if you have a helper and adjust each bin in the cruise area and feel how the engine likes it.

Hold the throttle steady at a certain speed and adjust theat bin and maybe a couple around it...go up a degree at a time and you will feel it in the gas pedal.
If it likes it you will notice it takes less throttle to maintain speed....if it doesn't it will feel like it is laboring.
Stripped66 wrote:The point wasn't to argue air temps with the current world record holder, but to dispel the claim that the K03 is wrapped up at 150 HP. It's not.

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