Fuel rails type4?

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supaninja
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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by supaninja » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:45 pm

Devastator wrote:
Piledriver wrote:Straight ethanol is quite nasty, E10-E85 likely has inhibitors in it, should be far less nasty.
It also depeds greatly on the aluminum alloy.
I think you guys are confusing Ethanol with Methanol.
I have an aluminum fuel tank, fuel rails, intake manifold, TB, and swirlpot, and have run exclusively E85 for years without any corrosion issues.
Methanol, however, is HIGHLY corrosive to aluminum, (and steel for that matter).

There is corrosion with ethanol. The turbine wheel was completely coated in a white powdery substance, my guess aluminum oxide residue. I don't think it corrodes aluminum very fast but it does.
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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by Devastator » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:51 pm

....but, turbine blades aren't made of aluminum..... are they?
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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by Piledriver » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:06 am

Devastator wrote:....but, turbine blades aren't made of aluminum..... are they?
What got on them probably once was...

Ethanol/e85 isn't remotely as bad as methanol, but it can still cause issues depending on alloy and water content.

Methanol is highly toxic and a corrosive, eats aluminum for breakfast and kicks baby seals for fun.
304/316 SS or teflon lines and fittings, and hope it doesn't eat your fuel pump/regulator even if it says methanol compatible.
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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by gaston » Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:48 pm

I got the answer to the replacement fuel injections with EV1 O-Rings on top (to fit into fuel rails):
0 280 150 774 (211 ccm/min).

Remark:
It's a high impedance Fuel injection valve, so NOT usable with original L-Jetronic, which requires low impedance ones. This one is perfect to work with Megasquirt MS3x which wants high impedance injection valves.

Remark 2:
Bosch states the EV6, EV12 and EV14 are since 1993 E85 compatible. If used with Methanol it must be cleaned immediately with gasoline.
The EV1 type from above is not mentioned. So I think they're only compatible to E5/ E10 fuel.

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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by supaninja » Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:30 pm

Devastator wrote:....but, turbine blades aren't made of aluminum..... are they?

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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by Devastator » Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:44 pm

supaninja wrote:Devastator wrote:
....but, turbine blades aren't made of aluminum..... are they?



Image
I believe that is from water mixing with aluminum, not ethanol mixing with aluminum. The reason it showed up with ethanol instead of gasoline, however, is because alcohol mixes readily with water, while gasoline doesn't. I realize that I'm using the word "aluminum" liberally. There are several different grades of aluminum, and some have copper in as an alloying additive, while some actually have iron.
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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by supaninja » Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:58 pm

It could be water, I live in a very humid part of Texas, I also had issues with the fuel sender corroding.
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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by Piledriver » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:02 pm

What would happen if you did use highZ injectors on Djet/Ljet?

Using lowz on a highz system requires resistors (or PWM) ... I suspect modern highZ injectors could possibly be used by eliminating/bypassing the resistors.???

Ray?
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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by gaston » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:46 am

Different voltage?

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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by Piledriver » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:12 am

gaston wrote:Different voltage?
Nope.

The factory setup uses resistors to limit current for the old skool lowZ injectors.
modern highZ injectors do it by themselves.

The PW/response/flow etc would need to be a reasonable match, but electrically it's a no brainer.
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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by raygreenwood » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:49 pm

Piledriver wrote:What would happen if you did use highZ injectors on Djet/Ljet?

Using lowz on a highz system requires resistors (or PWM) ... I suspect modern highZ injectors could possibly be used by eliminating/bypassing the resistors.???

Ray?

Yes....sorry for the delay. The L-jet resistors were slightly higher (some) than D-jet which makes them less than ideal for D-jet....but the L-jet injectors were lower by a considerable amount than modern resistor drivers......which kind of makes you wonder if Bosch/VW was already working on more modern systems at the time it built L-jet....like why did they bpther with resistors and not just make drivers that ran the injectors.

The answer is probably on several levels:
(1) Back then...much less than now...most improvments or new versions were on a 3-5 year cycle of design, test and release. I think I have a copy of the original D-jet connectors blue print that was dated either 1965 or 1966....for its first production release in late 1967 or early 1968. I'm betting that L-jet was being tested in 1971-1972. I'm betting that by 1973 that they were already working on upgrades or replacements for L-jet.

(2) Lower impedance injectors require better voltage control and better resolution of driver components....not as cheap or as reliable in the 1974 parts world.

If you can find injectors whose combined resistance equals what is coming out of the L jet resistor packs you can probably replace them.

Ray

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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by larsje » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:31 pm

gaston wrote:
Munchhausen wrote:
Piledriver wrote:If you have access to a TIG welder, the spacing on the late GSXR ITBs SS fuel rails seems ~perfect, I cut up a set and welded fittings on the open ends.
Other option are SS Rails from V6 Audi. Good to find on junkyard and on every side they have one spacing of 85mm. Take two rails and you allready have four fittings to weld on. :wink:

munch
Moin ;)

Thanks for the hint with the Audi fuel rails.

Oliver
Does any you happen to know which audi v6 fuel rails have the 85mm spacing on them?


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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by Piledriver » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:46 pm

Yamaha Waverunner 1100 (based on but not identical to R1 motorcycle), have nice flanged true ITBs as well.
(you cut the rails in half, line up perfectly with T4 stock injector locations)

The included injectors are highZ 230cc appx, at least the ones I have.

The R1 setup through 2014 looks entirely usable, and the rail already has a quick disconnect "T" in the middle.
I cannot confirm its 85mm, but it should be very close.
Sadly those seem to be DBW, so if you want to also use the TBs, you may need the ~2004 compatible version, which have SS rails.
(although MS etc have some support for DBW these days via CAN, using various factory TB controllers)
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Fuel rails type4?

Post by larsje » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:24 pm

Piledriver wrote:Yamaha Waverunner 1100 (based on but not identical to R1 motorcycle)
Thanks, unfortunatley they are not as commonly available as the audi rails mentined in this topic.

I guess its these (2.8 30 valve v6): Image

I will source a set and just try


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Re: Fuel rails type4?

Post by Piledriver » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:45 pm

Depends on locale...
Yamaha FX140/160 rails (alone) ~$35 and full ITB setups are actually pretty common on Ebay.
You cut the rail in half and weld on fittings where you cut, T4 ready.
The ITBs are true ITBs, and all 4 can be used individually if desired.

The whole setup is fully usable, the tbs are also only 60mm tall.
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