Type 1/2 IRS Kits/ Brakes

Iltis74 · Post by **Iltis74** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 11:58 pm

I have a '66 whose suspension and brakes are being modified this summer to an albatross front beam, IRS rear, and 944 brakes so I can fit cookie cutters, as the start of my first bus restoration.

If I go with an IRS kit that uses Beetle trailing arms then 944 discs are easy, but it would seem to me that it would make more sense to use a kit that grafted on later model bus parts that were designed for the wieght.

However I have not yet been able to find anything about adapting 944 brakes to a later model bus (70-79?) Any help in this area would be appreciated.

Also I am curious as to the pros and cons of the two general types of IRS kits.

Thanks

Pillow · Post by **Pillow** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 8:52 am

You cannot find anything because you cannot put Porsche discs on the rear of a bay setup.

Also the Cookie cutters offset is wrong at 23.3mm. You need the later 52.3mm offset to keep with in the fenders unless you want to narrow the front and rear track.

Check out www.germanlook.com

I have been down both roads so I speak from bad experience.

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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia
'79 Porsche 911 SC - FS
VolkSport Kafer Gruppe

paul_f · Post by **paul_f** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 12:14 pm

Thats good if they are- means I will probably have enough clearance to have bigger tyres.

Pillow · Post by **Pillow** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 2:29 pm

Paul I think so. That should be another 1/2" to fit pure tire in there

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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia
'79 Porsche 911 SC - FS
VolkSport Kafer Gruppe

paul_f · Post by **paul_f** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 11:31 pm

I am fitting the steel rear setup from a 944 to my bus - pick up my modified spring plates on Friday. The steel rear setup is internally braced so is stronger than the type 1 kit.
I currently have 15x6 cookies on the front of my bus, the offset is pretty bad, but the wheels are under the fenders even with the baywindow balljoint parts.
Not sure what offset the cookies are, but my 15x6 fuchs definately have a 36mm offset so hopefully they will tuck in a little more.

Pillow · Post by **Pillow** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 11:38 pm

I think the cookies were all 23.3mm offset?

Fuchs came in a bunch of variations as to offset so it is hard to say. Most common is 23.3, but there are 10s and 36s as well and who knows what else.

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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia
'79 Porsche 911 SC - FS
VolkSport Kafer Gruppe

Iltis74 · Post by **Iltis74** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 12:30 am

You cannot find anything because you cannot put Porsche discs on the rear of a bay setup.

Well that would explain a lot. Thanks.

So I will start looking around for a steel rear 944 suspension, as I have never welded aluminum before and will likely have to narrow the arms up a bit. I haven't measured my wheels yet but was told the backspacing was wrong for what I intended by the guy I bought them from. Only I don't care, I think they're an awesome looking wheel and somehow I intend to fit them on my baby.

I'm familiar with narrowing the front, and have found a good link to narrowing the trailing arms, but I want to know if there is another way to narrow the rear. Can I get torsion bars and half-shafts in custom lengths? That sounds too easy. A call to SAW might be in order. Any other custom axle shops?

Thanks.

Volcano · Post by **Volcano** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 3:09 am

Hi Guys,I to was looking into this.If you can live without Porsche try www.cbbvw.com.They make a kit.Regards

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Volcano

Iltis74 · Post by **Iltis74** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 2:43 am

Volcano, thanks for the link, but their kit does not incorporate IRS and requires a minimum 16" wheel, both strikes against my personal plans. It's currently late thursday night, and tomorrow I intend to call at least Old Speed to discuss their kits and whoever else I can think of to discuss rear narrowing methods.

My concern is that my Cookies for the rear are 15x7 with an appearantly bad offset that I cannot even mount without tires to a suspension I plan to change to know what kind of narrowing I am even talking about. But it's all fun.

Plasticfantastic · Post by **Plasticfantastic** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 9:01 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Iltis:
<B> Only I don't care, I think they're an awesome looking wheel and somehow I intend to fit them on my baby.

</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like this guy...

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'57 Ragtop
'59 Panel
'01 crewcab Duramax 4X4
'02 JettaWagon TDI

type2guy · Post by **type2guy** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 4:49 pm

Right On Itus!!!!

Keep that attitude around here...ALWAYs nice to have!

Keep us posted on any new ideas or progress you make.

Iltis74 · Post by **Iltis74** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 4:15 pm

Currently zero F with 40-60mph gusts so since I don't have to go to work today thought I would post an update.

IRS may be scrapped. I figured as long as I was ditching the reduction boxes it made sense to go all the way but everyone I have talked to has almost laughed when I told them I want a 7" cookie cutter hanging off the end of a trailing arm in a split bus. It seems I can choose to rub either the fender, the springplate, or both. So I've looked a bit at swing axle conversions now and the answer seems so obvious that it is making me wonder why I haven't heard of it before. I am sure it has been done and any feedback would be great.

The basic kit uses lengthened pre 66 axle tubes with type three (long) axles. Why not just straight up throw the pre 66 tubes and axles in and modify the spring plate to fit. Cut the stock one up near the torsion housing, cut some flatbar to overlap and put the beetle pattern on it, and some square stock to space them out.

The springplate stops would need to be cut short and upper shock mounts fabricated, and the bumpstop will have to be dealt with, but that's all so cheap and easy. So what's the score? Who here has done it, or what is the fatal flaw I'm not seeing.

rizzag11 · Post by **rizzag11** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 4:24 pm

the fatal flaw is that the axle tubes would be 1 1/8 to narrow on each side to bolt to the spring plates. which is why the straight axle kit uses long axles and custom tubes.

now here is your answer if you can fab or know someone that can. use a complete short axle set up from a bug and cut and narrow the torsion housing by 1 1/8 on each side. then it will bolt up, you will be narrowed by that much on each side and you can run your wide wheels.

you will also need to take 9/16 off of each side of both torsion bars but there is plenty of beef there so it will not be an issue.

jeff

Iltis74 · Post by **Iltis74** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 5:36 pm

Rizzag11, I considered shortening the torsion housing which is within my ability as it would be a much cleaner job, but my concern was that by shortening the spline I would create a weak point, especially since by cutting them I would change whatever heat treat they may have. I haven't actually pulled them to look at them yet, but am going off memory from reindexing the rear on my beetle about three years ago. They were sway-a-ways, but I'm sure they were a heat treated alloy. I assumed stock was likewise and am hesitant about putting them in the chop saw. But assumption is the mother of all f^*"ups and if it is acceptable to cut the torsion bars then that is a bandwagen I seem destined to jump aboard.

Incidentally I need to contact you in the near future about dropping my spindles.

Plasticfantastic · Post by **Plasticfantastic** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 8:31 pm

I wouldn't of thought a chop saw would get it hot enough to ruin the temper if you went kinda slow with the whackin'???

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'57 Ragtop
'59 Panel
'01 crewcab Duramax 4X4
'02 JettaWagon TDI