Generator Removal

VW's aircooled mini SUV. Great for riding in the country, or cruising the beach.
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Bob Ingman
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Post by Bob Ingman » Sat Dec 13, 2003 9:30 pm

Do you have an idiots manual? Good luck. Bob Ingman

nthang

Post by nthang » Sat Dec 13, 2003 10:03 pm

But Mr. Moderator, could you take a few minutes out of your day to help a humble lad repair his thing. The Muir book is replete with useful information. However, this topic is somehow omitted. Thank you.

nthang

Post by nthang » Sat Dec 13, 2003 10:41 pm

I found this quote searching an archive. Good stuff but useless:

Guys, I`ve never taken that approach. I use a 36mm
socket behind the generator to loosen the fan nut then
pull the generator and backing plate out. No need to
remove shroud,intake manifold or generator stand.The
whole thing should`nt require longer than ten minutes.
Like I say I hav`nt done this on the Thing but a type
one engine is a type one so I do`nt understand why the
engine removal method is easier or faster. Can anyone
tell me what I`m missing? Bob

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Bob Ingman
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Post by Bob Ingman » Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:38 am

Yes our search engine is a wonderful resource. Seems as if you have answered your own question now. Do`nt forget to check torque on big nut after running in. GL BI

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Capn Skully
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Post by Capn Skully » Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:06 am

I removed my generator by removing the manifold, loosening the stand, loosening the dog house, removing the four bolts in fan shroud. I then lifted the dog house as high as possible and removed the generator and fan in one piece.

I do it this way so I can insure I use the correct shims in the back and clean the fan etc. My way is difficult but it can be done without pulling the engine.

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Marc
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Re: Generator Removal

Post by Marc » Sun Dec 14, 2003 11:38 am

nthang wrote:...I thought that removed the big nut from the back of the fan would allow me to pull the generator completely out with the fan remaining in the fan shroud and the backing plate remaining attached to the fan shroud. But it won't budge. Also, the fan turns with the gen. as if still attached.
The four 10mm-wrench-size bolts which secure the backing plate pieces to the fan shroud must be removed so the backing plate can come out with the generator. Once you get it out you'll see why - there are two 10mm nuts holding the backing plate pieces onto the generator.
The pedestal does not need to be removed.
I do not recommend lifting the fan shroud, particularly any dualport shroud, except as a last resort when the 36mm nut won't budge. It's a major PITA to get everything tucked back into place with the engine in the car, especially if the thermostat is still present.

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Bob Ingman
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Post by Bob Ingman » Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:22 pm

I fail to understand why the issue of engine removal even comes up on the generator/alternator removal topics. I can assure you that as a line mechanic being paid a flat rate to do a job, engine removal was never considered an option. To me its kind of like removing the beam to change a tire.
If I were a sleezy mechanic working on a car owned by an idiot I might tell him the engine had to come out, and thus charge him half a day to R&R the gen but in the real world no. Just break the fan nut, remove the four screws holding the backing plate, loosen the clamp, tip the carb(if single) and jiggle that baby out of there. About ten min max.
Best of luck. Thanks Marc and Capn Scully. Bob Ingman

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Marc
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Post by Marc » Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:30 pm

Bob Ingman wrote:I fail to understand why the issue of engine removal even comes up on the generator/alternator removal topics. I can assure you that as a line mechanic being paid a flat rate to do a job, engine removal was never considered an option. To me its kind of like removing the beam to change a tire.
If I were a sleezy mechanic working on a car owned by an idiot I might tell him the engine had to come out, and thus charge him half a day to R&R the gen but in the real world no. Just break the fan nut, remove the four screws holding the backing plate, loosen the clamp, tip the carb(if single) and jiggle that baby out of there. About ten min max.
Best of luck. Thanks Marc and Capn Scully. Bob Ingman
Real simple. If the last clown to work on it blasted the fan nut on like it was an axle nut, you're never going to get it off - the woodruff key will shear out of the generator shaft before that ever happens. Now you have two options: spend hours of stooping over to lift the shroud and get everything back in place, or yank the engine so you can get an impact wrench on the fan nut. Which way works best depends upon the specific configuration and how your lower back feels that day...I'd probably charge less to do it by pulling the engine in most cases.

nthang

Post by nthang » Sun Dec 14, 2003 3:43 pm

Thank all of you for your insight. I got the generator off. The fan was sort of stuck and fooled me, as I did not know that its hole was "keyed" and was an extraordinarily tight fit/tolerance.....after a good guy informed me of this, I simply jiggled it until it came loose, allowing the generator with backing plate to be removed.

Installing the new bearings was rather staight forward. At least it appeared to be so. We shall see when I am able to start it.

I'm stuck again. I have not enough shims to install on the outside of the pulley nut assembly to keep it from bottoming out. That, btw, is what started all this bearing replacement.

Bob Inman is absolutely correct. The second time would take no more than ten (10) minutes to accomplish the generator removal start to finish. The first time is another story, but essential to understanding the cooling system, IMHO.

Anyone have a suggestion for acquiring shims on a Sunday??? I sure want to test the work and the weather is nice today. Thanks again.

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Bob Ingman
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Post by Bob Ingman » Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:29 pm

I did not elaborate initially because I had just read scotts explain to you what was up so was a little surprised to find the same question coming here. Knew you`ld fing Scotts exp soon.
The shims from the pulley will also work on the fan so you will probably have more than enough. Just have to rearrange them to work. Bob

nthang

Post by nthang » Mon Dec 15, 2003 9:17 am

You should return to the other forum and pick up the ball on the myriad thing post going unanswered, IMHO. It needs someone who has your technical background. You like helping out the thingers, etc. I will keep the recent past in my front pocket as a reminder that my exchanges with you did not do anything but cause problems to a site that many thing enthusiasts enjoy and use as a tool. Its worse off without the thorough technical aspects of the discussions. I cannot think of anything more worth my time than passing along knowledge and insight to other enthusiast. All the peripheral crap comes and goes and amounts to a toll for an otherwise free exchange of knowlege. Just my thoughts.

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Bob Ingman
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Post by Bob Ingman » Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:01 pm

Richard I am here and you are there. Thats fine with me. I left there to get away from you. You stay there and I stay here.There are those there that know far more than I concerning the Thing. Good luck. Bob Ingman
Last edited by Bob Ingman on Mon Dec 15, 2003 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Capn Skully
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Post by Capn Skully » Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:41 pm

Like all Things you have to take my posts with a large grain of salt. I don't claim to be any kind of expert, I can only relay my own experience. I do like to think of myself as knowledgable about VWs but there are many more people here that are more eloquent and knowledgable than I am. I am also happy to share my own experiences. "You have to learn from the mistakes of others, you don't have time to make them all yourself."

The themostat never occured to me because I never own an aircooled VW that had one. Changing the generator is a PITA no two ways about it.

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Bob Ingman
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Post by Bob Ingman » Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:54 pm

Capn the gen/alt swap on the t-1 engine is not that bad if you compare it to the T-4. Now THAT is a PITA. The T-3 was just laying there with a strap holding it down. A dream come true. Best of luck. Bob Ingman

bhowden
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Post by bhowden » Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:43 pm

Bob Ingman wrote:I fail to understand why the issue of engine removal even comes up on the generator/alternator removal topics. I can assure you that as a line mechanic being paid a flat rate to do a job, engine removal was never considered an option. To me its kind of like removing the beam to change a tire.
If I were a sleezy mechanic working on a car owned by an idiot I might tell him the engine had to come out, and thus charge him half a day to R&R the gen but in the real world no. Just break the fan nut, remove the four screws holding the backing plate, loosen the clamp, tip the carb(if single) and jiggle that baby out of there. About ten min max.
Best of luck. Thanks Marc and Capn Scully. Bob Ingman
Funny, I replied to this over on the Thing list and my answer was almost exactly the oposite of yours! I always found dropping the motor down on the floor jack was easy and made it easy to work on. Equally quick to lift it back up into place. I suspect my judgment is a bit clouded by remembering having to pull the shroud to get at an oil cooler which would be impossible in a thing and cumbersome in a beetle. Marc probably has the best balance with what is usually the right answer: "It depends".

Brian
74 Thing

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