Mega test work underway (2165 TI and TI DTM)

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Tue May 11, 2004 9:26 pm

Its been a while since I made a post letting you guys know what we are doing in the way of test work.. I will be making separate post as not everyone is interested in all the testing.

The Type I DTM is still in the works, but is on hold till I get the Type I 2165cc test engine back together to go to the next step. The 2165 TI was built on a new aluminum case that suffered from cracking issues and oil temperatures so high that we could not get good enough readings for consistency from it. The engine was rode very hard and put up wet for 18 solid days, it had some pretty good wear going on due to the head temps that it sustained during the test work....

Amazingly enough the DRD heads were in superior condition! I sent them back for darren to enhance for the squishies and for a new set of exhaust valves and freshen up for round #2 in the torture chamber... Darren can go into detail, but the heads were barely hurt! They saw 7K atleast 5 times a day for 18 solid days, and were spun to 8K at the SE dyno day where I TRIED to break them! These same heads sustained 5,000 RPM for 15 minute periods of time for hours on end... DRDs work is absolutely amazing!

The 2165 will be going back together on an OEM AS 41 case, and getting a set of Nickies, and a set of aircooled.net Squish enhanced pistons, coupled with a cam that I have been able to dream up. I'm not much of a fan of ratio rockers for my engines so i have went left wing and did my own cam design for this one and not followed Johns suggestions with the modified 86B... It may be a mistake, but I can always swap it out if it doesn't work. I have found an old master from Web for a cam that really compliments DRDs heads and what I feel will enhance the squishie combo- we'll see.

This time I have had alot of the bearings and etc that saw major wear before treated witha DLCcoating to try and keep the engine from wearing so quickly from the extreme situations that it sees in the dyno cell. This will provide alot of data as I plan on treating only some of the bearings, and not treating others so we can see the differences in the same engine!

The way the engine stands now we'll be running 12.3: static CR and bleeding that down a bit, and running 93 octane pump gas. I am looking for some amazing results with the nickies- squishies combo, and I also plan on comparing cast iron cylinders and Nickies on this engine while it is on the dyno for direct comparative analysis, thats the first of its kind with these two components. This will be done with no other variables entered into the equation, all will be exacting!

What I'm looking for with this one is 200HP with a flat torque curve that maybe only rises 15-20 pounds over the power range, and head temps cooler than a stocker!

Its primary testing position will be to provide comparative data between Nickies and cast iron cylinders, and for raw power between the two as well as running temperatures.

The secondary position will be to provide a more stable base to test the cooling systems again for comparative data from our fist series of tests- just for back up.....

And Ultimately, its goal will be to provide a basis to perfect the TI DTM with, and get the engine running stable on all 4 cylinders. With my latest changes I think we might just have it all figured out! at the end of my in car testing the engine was hurting so bad that we could no longer get good results, so i decided to tear into it and get us a new foundation!

I'm working on this project hot and heavy right now, and should have it done and dynoing in two weeks! Stay tuned!

drkoontz · Post by **drkoontz** » Tue May 11, 2004 9:34 pm

The 2165 TI was built on a new aluminum case that suffered from cracking issues and oil temperatures so high that we could not get good enough readings for consistency from it. The engine was rode very hard and put up wet for 18 solid days, it had some pretty good wear going on due to the head temps that it sustained during the test work....

Is this a result of > being a type one?
>using a aluminum case ?
>or the extreme nature of the dyno runs?

Thanks,Michael

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Tue May 11, 2004 9:38 pm

directly a result of the engine case- I'll never use another one.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed May 12, 2004 7:04 pm

Well, I have just finished up the mods on the new heads, we put a 1 mm bigger valve on the intake, did some mods to the chamber for the SS pistons, and pick up 15 cfm across the board with the mods. The new custom intake valve has improved the cone around the valve.
At 12.00 compression, with ACN SS pistons, on a custom RABY 1.1.1 cam, the engine should pull down around 230hp, and around 180lbs of torque, when its all said and done.

Test tools don't lie:) you ego lies!

Stay tuned!
DRD

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Wed May 12, 2004 8:00 pm

Best thing I have heard all night!

Thats gonna be sweet, 41x35.5- now I'm glad that I chose the cam that i did, that extra 15 CFM will definately compliment the camshaft!

BUMP IT UP-

Hear it thump!

Honda's Killer · Post by **Honda's Killer** » Thu May 13, 2004 1:29 pm

Are you STARTING with 12-1 and them moving up? Or is this going to be it.
I would like to know what the SR limit is of the SS.

230

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Thu May 13, 2004 1:39 pm

it'll probably stay at 12:1, going would definately create a new combo across the board.

Its all guesstimation right now, but it looks to be atleast 215 in every way that I look at it!

Honda's Killer · Post by **Honda's Killer** » Thu May 13, 2004 1:58 pm

What are your plans on bumping it up? Just keep increasing untill 91-93 will ping? What are your guesses? 14-1?

DRD · Post by **DRD** » Thu May 13, 2004 2:19 pm

it'll probably stay at 12:1, going would definately create a new combo across the board.

Its all guesstimation right now, but it looks to be atleast 215 in every way that I look at it!

Yep, it looks really good, the numbers are way up from before, thanks to some tricks I did to the valve and seat. At .550 lift, it would for sure make upwards of 220hp. On The Raby custom cam,we are rolling it over at .500, the head flows 200 cfm at .500, 213 cfm .550, 221cfm at .600.
We are making a guestimate based on tools and experience.
We will have to see what Jakes dyno tells him!

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Thu May 13, 2004 2:42 pm

I'll try it with 500 lift @ 1:1 and then go to a 1.25 and bump near .550 while it on the dyno. We have enough spring for 550 easily.

green1965bug · Post by **green1965bug** » Thu May 13, 2004 4:15 pm

Just curious, are you building and testing a T1 DTM's so that T1 engine owners will have a good shroud out there that they can buy? Or is it for that and also to put them on T1 engines that you will build in the future? I remember I read a while back you said you would or probably would faze out the T1's to just building Type4's. Im just wondering if that is still the case. Danny..........

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Thu May 13, 2004 4:25 pm

I almost already have phased out TIs here in my shop, we still do a few, but I have only done two all year.. I'm concentrating more heavily on TIV, 356/912 and some early 911 work(the market thats not beat to death by cut throats and customers really appreciate extra effort

I still do TIs, mostly for Replicars

The TI DTM will be sold to the public, but I need this test engine back up and running on the dyno before I can see if the changes I made while it was in the test car have actually changed it..

If so, it will only be a few weeks before we offer them to a select group of guys for some test work on other engines and then to the public.

The whole time it was on the dyno in the first round of testing we were going about it the wrong way.... I figured that out and it all fell in place much easier.

green1965bug · Post by **green1965bug** » Thu May 13, 2004 4:36 pm

Cool, thanks!

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Thu May 13, 2004 6:57 pm

Here are the results of Darrens work to the intake port, with a 41mm valve and a slight chamber change...

The Red line is the newest intake port, and the green is the old port..

The old port flowed like a MOFO, and made 187 ponies at 10;1... just imagine this and 12:1 with squishies..

Results should be here soon!

hedfurst · Post by **hedfurst** » Fri May 14, 2004 6:22 am

Almost unbelievable man!! RAT R&D is tops bar none. Jake, like I said before, your possessed--and I'm glad, I can't wait to get my hands on this one!

hedfurst