Jake, I know your away but I'll post it here in case you check in.
Didn't run the tuna can, I know you don't like those things but...
Motor lost pressure under braking and turning at first corner. Shut her down right away, don't think any damage was done. Between races took the car out on back roads near moroso and ran the motor thru the gears hard, no oil pressure loss and everything looked good, temps, etc.
Second race same problem with oil pressure loss at turn 1. It looked like the pressure loss was happening at the begining of the straight (after the turn) because the accusump was discharging until it was empty. Not enough capacity to make up for the loss I guess and mayber the sump was taking too long to re-prime.
Are these type IV motors that bad at oil starvation? I actually had a tuna can in the truck but there were no more races for us anyway so I didn't get a chance to try it.
Wondering if I should just try the tuna can or go to a deep sump (which has problems with ground clearance) but I was thinking of fabbing a skid plate to protect it.
I seem to remember that you adapted a TI deep sump to fit a TIV. I know SCAT makes a deep sump for TIV's. Which is the best one?
Also, how can I inspect the motor for damage? Check oil filter I guess, what about the plugs?
All temps were OK during run.
First event - Pressure loss at first turn...
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synthesisdv
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Wally
- Posts: 4575
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Hello,
I have encountered pressure loss often and found that upping the oil level just a bit made a big difference without ill side-effects if you don't overdo it.
Just try it a little bit at a time, after all, it doesn't involve any modifications
Greetings,
Walter
I have encountered pressure loss often and found that upping the oil level just a bit made a big difference without ill side-effects if you don't overdo it.
Just try it a little bit at a time, after all, it doesn't involve any modifications
Greetings,
Walter
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, 10.58 1/4 mi in a streetlegal 1303
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
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Cloudbuster
- Posts: 56
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Oil pressure loss
Well, that's not very happy making.
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Wally
- Posts: 4575
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Re: Oil pressure loss
Cloudbuster wrote:Well, that's not very happy making.
How's that?Greets,
Walter
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, 10.58 1/4 mi in a streetlegal 1303
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
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Cloudbuster
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 1:33 am
Pressure loss
W:
I was at a driving school a few weeks ago. The oil light came on (stock 2.0) a number of times in hard braking and intentional spinouts. It also comes on in vigorous street braking -- downhill offramp. I've been tracking synthesisdv on his engine install. I hoped the accusump would solve the problem.
D:
I'm wondering if oil cooler layout affects this. Did you re-route the crossover hose between the coolers (as suggested in this thread http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?a ... a9fd669a84)?
I was at a driving school a few weeks ago. The oil light came on (stock 2.0) a number of times in hard braking and intentional spinouts. It also comes on in vigorous street braking -- downhill offramp. I've been tracking synthesisdv on his engine install. I hoped the accusump would solve the problem.
D:
I'm wondering if oil cooler layout affects this. Did you re-route the crossover hose between the coolers (as suggested in this thread http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?a ... a9fd669a84)?
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synthesisdv
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 7:08 am
Re: Pressure loss
No but it sure was on my mind after the first run. I had a couple mechanic friends at the track. One of them is a formula ford racer and mechanic. He is smarter than most people I know and he thought the plumbing looked fine. Since the problem is only under severe braking and turning, I am pretty sure it is a starvation issue. Jake doesn't like the tuna cans but I think its necessary at the very least. Most serious racers end up going to a dry sump setup.Cloudbuster wrote:D:
I'm wondering if oil cooler layout affects this. Did you re-route the crossover hose between the coolers (as suggested in this thread http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?a ... a9fd669a84)?
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Cloudbuster
- Posts: 56
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Oil pressure
What's the wallet damage on a dry sump?
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Wally
- Posts: 4575
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 12:01 am
Do you guys have the (914) oil sump plate in the case?
I modified mine a little as by Jake's advise...
And I have an (small (BAS) oil sump extension.
Greetings,
Walter
I modified mine a little as by Jake's advise...
And I have an (small (BAS) oil sump extension.
Greetings,
Walter
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, 10.58 1/4 mi in a streetlegal 1303
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
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Dave_Darling
- Posts: 2534
- Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2000 12:01 am
The tuna can appears to be low enough to be in harm's way when you have a rear-engined car, like a Bug conversion. In a 914, you hit the motor mount bar significantly before you hit the tuna can.
It does help some, but in theory the Accusump should help better. The tuna can only gives you about a half-quart of oil trapped near the pickup, some of which you can't get to anyway. The Accusump should give you a full quart's worth of oil... BTW, Wally is dead-on about overfilling the crankcase. We typically tell 914'ers to run a half-quart over full.
I'm guessing that Something Is Wrong with the Accusump plumbing or perhaps with the external oil cooler setup.
(If you do install the Tuna Can, check the length of the oil pickup tube extension first. Weltmeister has been shipping ones with an overly-long extension and the can will not seat on the crankcase.)
Not sure what to tell you on the specifics. My car did the same thing when it was a quart low (whoops, mis-counted the bottles I poured in!!). There was similar, but lesser, behavior when I first got on the track.
Hmm, perhaps you're winding up with too little oil in the sump because it's been pushed into the oil cooler and lines?
--DD
It does help some, but in theory the Accusump should help better. The tuna can only gives you about a half-quart of oil trapped near the pickup, some of which you can't get to anyway. The Accusump should give you a full quart's worth of oil... BTW, Wally is dead-on about overfilling the crankcase. We typically tell 914'ers to run a half-quart over full.
I'm guessing that Something Is Wrong with the Accusump plumbing or perhaps with the external oil cooler setup.
(If you do install the Tuna Can, check the length of the oil pickup tube extension first. Weltmeister has been shipping ones with an overly-long extension and the can will not seat on the crankcase.)
Not sure what to tell you on the specifics. My car did the same thing when it was a quart low (whoops, mis-counted the bottles I poured in!!). There was similar, but lesser, behavior when I first got on the track.
Hmm, perhaps you're winding up with too little oil in the sump because it's been pushed into the oil cooler and lines?
--DD
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Wally
- Posts: 4575
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 12:01 am
It only struck me now, that what you guys call the 'tuna-can' actually is my oil sump extensionDave_Darling wrote:The tuna can appears to be low enough to be in harm's way when you have a rear-engined car, like a Bug conversion. --DD
. Now that I have made the connection, it does look like a (tuna) can... 
I'll try to post a pic of my modified sump plate tonight (the afternoon in the us
)Greetings,
Walter
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, 10.58 1/4 mi in a streetlegal 1303
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
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EASY RIDER
- Posts: 532
- Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2003 10:22 pm
Well, Well, Well. I was looking for a way to find some info on the very same subject and was going to wait till Jake made it back to his heaven but since this is the first post I found when looking up "dry sump" I think I should join in. My Super is very stable and would love to try and autocross the car but tonight I went looking for a testing ground and became very let down by my discovery. While making a right turn from one two lane street onto another two lane street at 35 mph in second and pushing the gas up to 5000 (rev set on Hy-Fire) the oil light came on. I was not even pushing the car because the back end did not even brake loose. I shut the car off and thought it must me something I did and not the fact that the engine could not handle a little hard cornering (since I said I wanted it set up to be able to handle hard turns since Atlanta is full of places to corner). I tried the same corner at the same speed and the same thing happened. My wife was very confused as to what was going on with the car because she did not feel that the ride was that violent (I don't have seat belts and this is a big deal with her). I am looking forward to finding why this is happening to my engine also. 
Bert
Bert
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synthesisdv
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Guest
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synthesisdv
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