2450 (78mm x 100mm) engine build
-
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:27 am
Re: 2400 engine build
Ok did some mileage on the engine. (EBI about 800 km trip)
Found out some interesting stuff.
This is the 2.0 engine minus the heads, so same engine as before but with standard CU heads (using the other heads for the 2.4 engine)
So standard 39x33 valves.
Deckheight now 1.25 mm compression stayed the same 9.5/6 static.
First things i noticed it does not like a lot of advance of the distributer, had to turn it down from 31 to 28degrees..
You could feel it pinging on high RPM s.
I use Porsche swivel feet….. damn those are hard to adjust...for some reason it is difficult to put the feeler gauge between the valves
and the swivel feet because of constant moving of the 'head'... but ok..
Did a few 100 km then adjusted them to 0.10 mm … well for some reason the engine does not like this…
not pulling strong anymore…. feels very lazy.. so did put the back to 0.15 and power was back....
A bit strange for me that this small adjustment had so much influence..
Using alu pushrods… so thinking they don t like tight valve clearance on type 4 engines.
And how did it pull, well it is pulling as hard as the old engine in low RPMs, only lacking the power above 5200 rpms, than the power is gone..
It is moving to little air I think with the small valves to keep pulling till 6500 like with the old heads..
It is a very nice bottom pulling engine now...
Ooh it is also a lot quitter..
Enjoying it this summer, building the other for next year...
Found out some interesting stuff.
This is the 2.0 engine minus the heads, so same engine as before but with standard CU heads (using the other heads for the 2.4 engine)
So standard 39x33 valves.
Deckheight now 1.25 mm compression stayed the same 9.5/6 static.
First things i noticed it does not like a lot of advance of the distributer, had to turn it down from 31 to 28degrees..
You could feel it pinging on high RPM s.
I use Porsche swivel feet….. damn those are hard to adjust...for some reason it is difficult to put the feeler gauge between the valves
and the swivel feet because of constant moving of the 'head'... but ok..
Did a few 100 km then adjusted them to 0.10 mm … well for some reason the engine does not like this…
not pulling strong anymore…. feels very lazy.. so did put the back to 0.15 and power was back....
A bit strange for me that this small adjustment had so much influence..
Using alu pushrods… so thinking they don t like tight valve clearance on type 4 engines.
And how did it pull, well it is pulling as hard as the old engine in low RPMs, only lacking the power above 5200 rpms, than the power is gone..
It is moving to little air I think with the small valves to keep pulling till 6500 like with the old heads..
It is a very nice bottom pulling engine now...
Ooh it is also a lot quitter..
Enjoying it this summer, building the other for next year...
- Clatter
- Posts: 2033
- Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2002 1:01 am
Re: 2400 engine build
Nice to hear your results.. Thanks for sharing.
I'm a big fan of steel pushrods.
Almost seems to me that swivel feet require their use.;
Just spin the foot to set the 'loose zero'
Your valves being tight would produce the symptoms you describe, as the slightly-open valves bleed off combustion pressure.
This can be very bad for valves..
You might check them hot - like hot hot, and be sure none are ever being held open.
(another reason to like steel pushrods).
Good on you for noticing and hitting that 28 advance setting.
Type 4s are known for often liking 28, as the type 1 often likes 32.
I'm a big fan of steel pushrods.
Almost seems to me that swivel feet require their use.;
Just spin the foot to set the 'loose zero'
Your valves being tight would produce the symptoms you describe, as the slightly-open valves bleed off combustion pressure.
This can be very bad for valves..
You might check them hot - like hot hot, and be sure none are ever being held open.
(another reason to like steel pushrods).
Good on you for noticing and hitting that 28 advance setting.
Type 4s are known for often liking 28, as the type 1 often likes 32.
Speedier than a Fasting Bullet!
Beginners' how-to Type 4 build thread ---> http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853
Beginners' how-to Type 4 build thread ---> http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=145853
-
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:27 am
Re: 2400 engine build
Thanks Clatter,
Sometimes I am missing this info on here.
I think I am going to check the valves when hot... thanks for the tip.
Yeah for some reason I don t know what to choose in concern of pushrods..
I read a lot of info on alu ones… a lot are about they expand the same as the engine... but that is not my experience..
So thanks for sharing that you run 'loose zero' with steel ones..
It is also running a bit rich on highway speeds, If you go full throttle trough the gears it picks up great.
but running a half hour on the freeway, you feel it not wanting to pick up anymore….
As soon if you shift down in thirth it burns the fuel in high revs… then it will pick up again..
Have to sort that out.. starting with smaller idle jets.
Sometimes I am missing this info on here.
I think I am going to check the valves when hot... thanks for the tip.
Yeah for some reason I don t know what to choose in concern of pushrods..
I read a lot of info on alu ones… a lot are about they expand the same as the engine... but that is not my experience..
So thanks for sharing that you run 'loose zero' with steel ones..
It is also running a bit rich on highway speeds, If you go full throttle trough the gears it picks up great.
but running a half hour on the freeway, you feel it not wanting to pick up anymore….
As soon if you shift down in thirth it burns the fuel in high revs… then it will pick up again..
Have to sort that out.. starting with smaller idle jets.
- Wally
- Posts: 4562
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 12:01 am
Re: 2400 engine build
Maybe start collecting EFI parts in the meantime
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, 10.58 1/4 mi
www.apfelbeck.nl
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
www.apfelbeck.nl
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
-
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:27 am
Re: 2400 engine build
I know I know.... but I am still in love with carb engines....
But I am almost ready for it.... whaha
Edit:
If they made a EFI looking like a carb... I would buy them directly
- bj
- Posts: 1156
- Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2003 12:01 am
Re: 2400 engine build
Eddie010 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:45 pmWally wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:06 amask and you shall receive...might have a sell a kidney, but you're not using both of them right?
https://www.borlainduction.com/weber-id ... ments.html
- bj
- Posts: 1156
- Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2003 12:01 am
Re: 2400 engine build
i think CB Performance was working with the original makers of this TB, but stopped. the company/product seems to have switched hands a few times now. there's a thread on here about it from a few years ago.
BJ
BJ
-
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:27 am
Re: 2400 engine build
Hmmm ooh yeah... I know those...
Ok still playing around with adjustments.
Placed some bigger vent, now 30, to incorporate with the main and air jets.
But I have a question, is there a limit to the revs a standard CU head (39x33 valves) can turn?
Because after all adjustments it won t rev above 5200 RPM s.
Need some info on this
Thanks in regards
Ok still playing around with adjustments.
Placed some bigger vent, now 30, to incorporate with the main and air jets.
But I have a question, is there a limit to the revs a standard CU head (39x33 valves) can turn?
Because after all adjustments it won t rev above 5200 RPM s.
Need some info on this
Thanks in regards
- Wally
- Posts: 4562
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 12:01 am
Re: 2400 engine build
No, no limit with regard to the head itself, but its not hard to imagine a large engine to breathe through "a straw" being "somewhat" restrictive
But serieusly, that 39mm intake in a 94mm bore is very small for a performance 2.0 engine.
Added that your cam has an extremely small lobe center of 105 degrees if I read correctly. That tight a lobe center also brings down the torque band down in RPM. Peak torque might be at 3K or so probably, which is low for what you want.
A 108LC cam (~86b) would be easiest to swap. Putting 42x36 in the heads is probably a little more involved.
Both would be best and give you max power at or just over 6000RPM
But serieusly, that 39mm intake in a 94mm bore is very small for a performance 2.0 engine.
Added that your cam has an extremely small lobe center of 105 degrees if I read correctly. That tight a lobe center also brings down the torque band down in RPM. Peak torque might be at 3K or so probably, which is low for what you want.
A 108LC cam (~86b) would be easiest to swap. Putting 42x36 in the heads is probably a little more involved.
Both would be best and give you max power at or just over 6000RPM
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, 10.58 1/4 mi
www.apfelbeck.nl
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
www.apfelbeck.nl
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
-
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:27 am
Re: 2400 engine build
Yeah I know... I thought they where a little bit to small too, but is a in between engine, I use my good heads (that pulled with this engine more than 6500 RPM s) for a bigger build engine but it took to long, that is why I putt the 'small' heads on the 'performance' engine... wanted to know if this could work.Wally wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:22 am No, no limit with regard to the head itself, but its not hard to imagine a large engine to breathe through "a straw" being "somewhat" restrictive
But serieusly, that 39mm intake in a 94mm bore is very small for a performance 2.0 engine.
Added that your cam has an extremely small lobe center of 105 degrees if I read correctly. That tight a lobe center also brings down the torque band down in RPM. Peak torque might be at 3K or so probably, which is low for what you want.
A 108LC cam (~86b) would be easiest to swap. Putting 42x36 in the heads is probably a little more involved.
Both would be best and give you max power at or just over 6000RPM
But valve size seem to be restrictive. ok no problem... now I know this.
Ok maybe another cam would work... I will keep that in mind also.
Thanks Walter
-
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:27 am
Re: 2400 engine build
Ok 1 step further, placing the sleeves for type 1 lifters.
So the Pieper lifters will operate perfectly.
So the Pieper lifters will operate perfectly.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
- Wally
- Posts: 4562
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 12:01 am
Re: 2400 engine build
Well done! Those lifters are awesome, I use them in both my 1200Challenger and type 4 engine.
- Ephry73
- Posts: 3369
- Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 12:01 am
Re: 2400 engine build
IndeedWally wrote:Well done! Those lifters are awesome, I use them in both my 1200Challenger and type 4 engine.
OP keep posting your progress.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:27 am
Re: 2400 engine build
Maybe you have seen it on the picture above, had the cases machined for 100m cilinders, but decided to do the shuffle bushing on center bearing saddle as well.