Max's 67 Ghia Build

VW underneath a classic Italian body design.
Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 16394
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:17 am

Re: Max's 67 Ghia Build

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:20 am

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=fi ... &FORM=IGRE

Max, if you haven't done the feeding of the electrical though the tube; when I referred to a knot the "figure 8" knot one of the best of the common knots to use. Those of us who sailed or grew up around the Navy know it as a "thrown knot" as you can throw the loop in a line then throw the tail of the line through the loop to use as an emergency stop for a loose running line rather try to hand stop it and get into trouble. I've thrown one a couple times myself only once in an emergency though.

Lee

User avatar
Max Welton
Posts: 2649
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:01 am

Re: Max's 67 Ghia Build

Post by Max Welton » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:23 am

Amazing the things one can learn in a car-hobby forum. ;-)

Max

User avatar
Max Welton
Posts: 2649
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:01 am

Re: Max's 67 Ghia Build

Post by Max Welton » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:55 pm

Today I had a key made for my original ignition ... and it turned out to be even worse than the nicer one I just bought. :(

I have to believe an intermittent switch could cause all sorts of crummy running even with a stock points and coil setup. My Megasquirt would just crap its little pants. So neither switch is usable.

I needed to learn how these things go together so I decided to try taking the uglier of the two apart. The guys at the locksmith said the face looked like it would come off by simply filling the heads off these little pins and punching them out.
20200324_172306.jpg
So I dremmeled them and applied a small punch to each side. As I forced the face away from the housing, the key tumbler broke inside. The rest of the tumbler is still held by something.
20200324_143100.jpg
Fine. Around to the backside. It looks like the plastic piece that holds the male spades was captured by peaning in the case at three points. I saw no way of getting the needle-nose pliers in there so I used a tiny grinder to mill them away. That plastic is very brittle after 53 years and just crumbled when I tried to pull it out. Carnage. :(
20200324_145229.jpg
20200324_145238.jpg
20200324_145255.jpg
Yeah, the contacts are very worn.

So that's where I stopped. This one-year only part is now a bag of broken parts.
20200324_174844.jpg
I'm thinking the tumbler may need to be in a particular position (maybe "start") in order to slide out. I need to sit and think some before attacking the poor thing again.

Max
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

BAJA-IT
Posts: 2029
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:02 pm

Re: Max's 67 Ghia Build

Post by BAJA-IT » Mon May 04, 2020 5:50 pm

Can the plastic part be replaced by a 3D printed piece?
If so, then you wouldn't have to worry as much about taking the other one apart.
BRAT Motorsports #936
Bolt Center: Salt Lake City, Ut
ACE: Air Cooled Engineering, now Black Line Racing

Bruce.m
Posts: 250
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:44 pm

Re: Max's 67 Ghia Build

Post by Bruce.m » Wed May 06, 2020 4:14 am

Might be possible to fit the <70 T1 switch to that special housing, perhaps with a 3D print collar?
Can you see the part that engages with the switch?
There may be a small pin that connects the key barrel to the tooth section that engages the switch and that’s why it snapped. That how it works on the T1 part.

User avatar
Max Welton
Posts: 2649
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:01 am

Re: Max's 67 Ghia Build

Post by Max Welton » Wed May 06, 2020 10:57 am

I may need to cut the housing open to see how the two sections are connected.

Max

User avatar
Max Welton
Posts: 2649
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:01 am

Re: Max's 67 Ghia Build

Post by Max Welton » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:44 pm

Well, I bought another 67 switch that the seller swore did not have the problem my other switch had.

It does. :-\

So I have another idea. Is anyone aware of a relay circuit that would introduce some hysteresis to the on-to-off transition? In other words ... a delay of say one second when turning off the ignition?

Max

User avatar
Piledriver
Moderator
Posts: 22201
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 3:01 am

Re: Max's 67 Ghia Build

Post by Piledriver » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:15 am

There are time delay relays of the analog or digital kind out there, but to a point complexity if the enemy of reliability, at least for simple things that absolutely must work. (Some things cannot be simple and a good return on complexity can exist, but this is an ignition switch)

It figure out how to make the visible bits look '67 and make the hidden working bits late model if possible.

The ignition or ems are relay powered
the starter solenoid as well. Ford starter solenoids are designed for full starter current (high current draw overkill) , a std 4 pin relay should be used for that.
Headlights work almost infinitely better if you only control them via the factory wiring, same for ~eveything else.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
The longer a vehicle rests on jackstands,the more likely it is to remain that way...

User avatar
Max Welton
Posts: 2649
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:01 am

Re: Max's 67 Ghia Build

Post by Max Welton » Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:30 am

Sure. The issue here isn't really minimizing arcing in the switch like a headlight relay. The problem is that my MS ECU will restart at even the slightest interruption. If I'm jiggling down the road the ECU will constantly be restarting with these flaky switches. Any circuit that can bridge even a 1/2 second drop would work. My hope is that someone who can design a circuit will know just how it could be done. I can follow a schematic.

Ideally I would have a switch that makes consistent contact. Buying up one-year only switches that are all 53 years old gets expensive.

I suppose I could fit up a generic ignition switch which would be new and easily sourced. Not crazy about that but it would certainly check the functionality box.

Max

User avatar
Max Welton
Posts: 2649
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:01 am

Re: Max's 67 Ghia Build

Post by Max Welton » Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:42 pm


User avatar
chickensoup
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:58 am

Re: Max's 67 Ghia Build

Post by chickensoup » Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:33 am

nice car! I will be watching for sure. Let me see if i have a ghia part laying around. if so i will draw one up in CAD and print one out for you.

User avatar
Max Welton
Posts: 2649
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:01 am

Re: Max's 67 Ghia Build

Post by Max Welton » Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:41 am

Wow. Thanks!

Max

User avatar
doc
Site Admin
Posts: 3529
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 5:38 pm

Re: Max's 67 Ghia Build

Post by doc » Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:41 pm

I love this place.

User avatar
chickensoup
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:58 am

Re: Max's 67 Ghia Build

Post by chickensoup » Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:46 pm

doc wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:41 pm
I love this place.
Why? B/C there less BS here than on the samba? :wink: I just wish this place was more active :cry: :cry:

It turns out i dont have one, BUT, i have a friend who can take a few measurements for me next time he goes to hos ACVW junkyard. I will ask him and let you know.

User avatar
Piledriver
Moderator
Posts: 22201
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 3:01 am

Re: Max's 67 Ghia Build

Post by Piledriver » Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:22 pm

Ferrite noise suppressors also help a lot with things like ac or intermittent wipers cycling which puts inductive switching spikes onto the 12v lines.

I have two ac condenser fans with a slight time delay setup using cascaded relays so one stops/starts a second or so before the other, preventing a 50A startup current surge etc.

Keeping the power and ground lines to the battery as short and fat as possible also helps.

Note that any mechanical relay will provide a slight delay, you shouldn't really use the factory switches//wiring to do anything other than control relays, its garbage. Wiring/connector quality wasnt great when new.

We happen to love cars that in some areas were very cheaply made, and of sometimes highly dubious design.
(pre-73 front seat rails, ignition wire unfused, etc, etc)
Addendum to Newtons first law:
The longer a vehicle rests on jackstands,the more likely it is to remain that way...

Post Reply