Mid engine fun

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I have no pan to have to match the shape of.

My little body never did fit a vw pan very well.
Someone had done some ugly patch work add on to the body to get it to mount.

I cut all that off and the body flange had a much sharper angle to it than what a vw pan has.
So instead of a gentle bend my channels have a single point corner.

That means a single triangle cut out then bent and welded.

Now remember these channels are NOT the main structure of my chassis.
My primary structure will be the tubing I have yet to do.

I hope I am wrong but I think you are going to find that the outer side area is more important than one might think (I noticed that you have mounting flanges already).

For example, I added a second 1" square tube on the underside of the pan for some additional support. When I was fitting my seats it set them in place to fit me then I asked the tallest and shortest of my group sit in the buggy for the seat fit check but... I had forgot to clamp the body lift and the square tube under the pan (that matched the body lift) together with bolts. Once the fit check was done and the others were gone I found out that the pan and the 1" square tube attached to it had taken a downwards set to them.

My blue buggy is an 80 wheel base while the black buggy is ~95"s (stock VW) also, I am a "cruiser" not a "beater upper" like some are which still means that "things" can happen.

I once met a guy from just north of where I live who had a ACVW junk yard and, while talking to him, he said that he had noticed the dune buggy pans (street or off-road) ended a slight bend to the tunnel starting at the forward firewall and ending by the shifter hole (not from a wreck either. He and I agreed that the absence of a structural body for load carrying and transferring around was the cost of most of it. FG, especially since, like a rag top, there is no top to move the loads around more of the load problem ends up in the tunnel and sides.

Lee

[panel]

I love it !

[DeathBySnuSnu]

The only way I can think of to describe it is.....
Think of a rail buggy.....it does not have these parts at all.
A rail buggy is a tube frame..... just like this will be.
But I want to mount a body to it.
And just like a rail buggy with body panels added to it.....my body will not be a structural member.

In the end it will be a fully functional vehicle (except for lights) without the body on it at all.

Except for ground clearance you could jump dunes with it like a rail buggy.

I am starting at the body mounts because that is a dimension that can not change. The tubing will and must fit around the body. It may look weird with the body off.....as in not as sleek as a rail buggy.

Imagine a fiberglass buggy with the side pods.
Like this my car body has a great open area outside of the tub and inside the pod area for the bridge truss to be.

And as a side note......the tub or passenger compartment is very much like a fiberglass buggy.....and it is 15-1/2" shortened.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to point out. Even if you do a bridge/truss style of frame build there can be movement that FG doesn't like and I was trying to point that out. I'm trying to quell some of that myself on my black buggy partly because of the longer wheel base.

I don't push my buggy like quads, SXS, rails and Sand cars (120" wheel base with mid-20s + suspension travel) are but I do see damage come in that does happen even when one is playing nicely. Even had a couple of those things happen to me... usually out of the blue.

Lee

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Well.......
I have not gotten much done.

I lost December to being sick with covid.
Then January was all work getting caught back up.

Still busy.....but getting tidbits of time here and there.

[DeathBySnuSnu]

The body is fairly lopsided....
So during all that time I have been blocking it up and setting weight on it.
It has straightened up greatly....the tops of the fenders are evened up and level.

I got some poly seat shells. I was hoping to be able to use a thicker padded seat.......but nope. To get my head behind the windshield.....and with 3 inch drop floorboards.....the butt caint he more that 2 inches off the floor.

But anyway......now I know where the roll bar has to be and I am bending tubing.

16112026176082.jpg

16112026584933.jpg

16112853423840.jpg

[GS guy]

The front end does sort of have the look of a 60's McLaren or Chaparral. The 6-stack injection reinforces that look! Needs some bulging fender flares and scoops along the sides to complete the "look". And Please do something with the back end of the bodywork, Something shaped more like the the sports racing cars mentioned. Cool project, Ton of work!

[Ol'fogasaurus]

The body is fairly lopsided....
So during all that time I have been blocking it up and setting weight on it.
It has straightened up greatly....the tops of the fenders are evened up and level.

I got some poly seat shells. I was hoping to be able to use a thicker padded seat.......but nope. To get my head behind the windshield.....and with 3 inch drop floorboards.....the butt caint he more that 2 inches off the floor.

But anyway......now I know where the roll bar has to be and I am bending tubing.

16112026176082.jpg

16112026584933.jpg

16112853423840.jpg

Remember, the closer you sit to the floor the farther to the rear your seat has to be for your "hoofs" (pun intended... for fun only) to work the pedals properly. That is because your legs stick out farther at a more straight angle than on say a dining room chair. I am running my seats on my black car on three inch tall mounts and using a C-channel as a cross-mount as I have to span the rear seat foot well. My blue buggy the seats are fastened directly to the floor.

Your pan is a bit different from what you said so does the 2" rule counting the thickness of the seat then the 2" or your fanny being just 2" off the deck? Also (for what it is worth), the tunnel, if you have one, is also structural for the floorboards and pan halves.

Lee

[DeathBySnuSnu]

That is 2 inches total.

The original seats (I have them) are laid back a lot to get your head down.....and still you better be short.
But it puts your knees up into the steering wheel.

I like to sit more upright. I found some poly seats that are thin bottomed and more upright. I like them a lot more (other than thin pad covers). I am not tall....more low average. I got my knees down so I can clutch and my head behind the windshield.
I had to shorten the pedals an inch and remake the gas pedal where it will be more upright so that it all feels right.
The only thing not right is the steering wheel placement. I like my wheel further away than normal and it is going to have to be closer than what I like but still in normal area for most.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I have shrunk about 2" now. They say that after 40 you start shrinking about 1" every 30 years (On average, we shrink about a quarter to a third of an inch per decade for every decade after 40. All told, men will get about 1.2 to 1.5 inches shorter, and women will lose up to 2 inches, by age 70. A quote off the web.)

The steering wheel problem you mentioned is another factor in seating. When finally setting my seat locations (the driver's seat can be moved forward and aft) I had the tallest and shortest in my "group" sit and was still able to push the foot pedal to the firewall. I set the passenger seat in a fixed location based on where I would sit so the passenger's "ka-noggin" doesn't block my view to the side which is very important when riding off-road because of some of the "*^&*^$*&^'s who don't pay any attention other than straight ahead. The pass seat isn't movable other than it can be tipped forward to access the battery location (just some thoughts I used when locating my seats.

Floor pedals require more toe-pointing while hanging pedals do also but not as much. I was surprised that you said you shortened the pedals but this is not the first time that I have heard it said. My #10 "Brogans" (an old slang term) mean that the aftermarket pedal leverage dimensions are about right for me. My problem (which I am working on now) it my #10's hit the location where the connection tube from the front cage hoop to the top of the front beam has to be raised (stock-ish VW pan).

Also the steering wheel location when driving was interesting. For racing I agree but for everyday driving, especially when going long distances, I like to be able to move either the seat or the steering wheel (a movable seat is probably better and safer than the movable steering wheel ).

I am still enjoying your build. Thanks for the continuation on posting what you are doing as I am not too far along to stop making changes.

May the SnuSnu be with you!

Lee

[DeathBySnuSnu]

The knees down, shortened pedals, and rotating them towards me some (less toe pointing) ...... Really helped me out in fitting.....and.....helped my feet around the windshield wiper motor. Yes it is that small and the wiper motor is inside and that low.

I hope the shorter pedals don't bite me.
I am running a 228mm clutch but not a very high pressure one (stock Mazda).

[DeathBySnuSnu]

The front end does sort of have the look of a 60's McLaren or Chaparral. The 6-stack injection reinforces that look! Needs some bulging fender flares and scoops along the sides to complete the "look". And Please do something with the back end of the bodywork, Something shaped more like the the sports racing cars mentioned. Cool project, Ton of work!

Yep.
Not much changes to the front.
Maybe a splitter.
Definitely fender bulges.

The back end is still unplanned.
Several things I wanna do.
The faux fender scoops filled in.
Maybe scoops in front of the rear tires.
Tall wing
The butt will have to be mostly flat.....as the radiator will be there. But I don't like the tail light area.
I am currently looking at angling the radiator so I can angle downthe tail.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I went back and reread all 6 pages and looked at the pix posted.

Since you did not kerf bend your side rails like I did but did a cut and weld thing I think I would still put a doubler on the inside weld area.

7-28-2010 007 (2).JPG

This shows the body lift and shows two of the doublers covering the kerfs after they were ground smooth. I over bent the doubler and drilled three holes for spot welds. I then clamped the doubler in place and pulled it up tight so all the edges were flush then welded the seams then the spot welds.

I also made sure that the seams on the rectangular tube were facing inside of the body lift for strength not being as much on the seams of the tube.

Question: are the floor pan going to be connected to the top of the tubes or on the bottom? There are advantages and disadvantages to both ways. Since my use is different than I think yours is this is just for additional information.

Lee

[DeathBySnuSnu]

Chassis.

16378886992941.jpg

16378887143302.jpg

16392625777282.jpg

16392625861153.jpg

16374540258234.jpg

16422989890830.jpg

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Interesting! While it is a bit late (3rd and 4th pix down) the lightening holes are a bit close to the bends in the structure and maybe smaller dia. hole. The bend radius' might (don't know for certain due to several things) be somewhat compromised. Also, I would think they would "flanged" holes for strength.

Again, looking very interesting and should be a fun drive.

Lee