MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo "Beetle"

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Piledriver
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo "Beetle"

Post by Piledriver » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:39 pm

On ms2E/ms3, you basically have a 50/50 chance of it being at the correct orientation where ever you stick it in:, the cam sync is only used for phase, timing still derived from missing tooth crank wheel. timing will be right or 180 out, just move it until it flips, and a little more.

precise cam signal orientation only matters on a non-missing tooth crank wheel, like the 6+1 setup I originally ran using the pressure plate bolt holes in the flywheel for the crank wheel. In that case the cam signal determines which crank wheel tooth is #1.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
The longer a vehicle rests on jackstands,the more likely it is to remain that way...

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kangaboy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo "Beetle"

Post by kangaboy » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:13 am

I was reading up on this and figured that was the situation. I can just turn the sensor one way or another to make it work no matter where it is. I (hopefully) will never run a distributor on this motor again, so I'll just plop the drive in there and orientate the cam sensor appropriately.
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
My Megasquirt Turbo Build

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Piledriver
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo "Beetle"

Post by Piledriver » Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:18 am

I still have a distributor, but it has a rustoleum spray can cap on it.
It houses a 36-2 wheel. (was supposed to be 36-1 but used a bit too much current on the TIG torch)
Addendum to Newtons first law:
The longer a vehicle rests on jackstands,the more likely it is to remain that way...

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kangaboy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo "Beetle"

Post by kangaboy » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:19 am

Am I going to be in trouble if I don't have shielded wire on my cam wheel wiring like I do for my crank sensor wiring?
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
My Megasquirt Turbo Build

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Piledriver
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo "Beetle"

Post by Piledriver » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:49 am

Its not as picky, but I personally like shielded twisted pair,and make sure its flexible multistrand wire.
Hall sensor circuits are pretty low impedance, VR sensor setups typically need more attention to shielding,

High quality audio cables (think XLR) are made from really nice stuff and are roadie and even musician proof, I have bought hunks of various canare cable for multiple projects from HAVE if mail order is your thing, local guitar/amp repair shops also will have the good stuff.
(None were audio projects, its just awesome cable and not @ridiculous price)

Also, only attach the shield to ground at one end,
it may pay to try both ends (only one at a time) if you run into noise issues.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
The longer a vehicle rests on jackstands,the more likely it is to remain that way...

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kangaboy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo "Beetle"

Post by kangaboy » Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:37 pm

After an eventful last several days...I think it's fixed!!! (Man I sure hope this doesn't jinx me...)
So I'll leave out the dumb details, like my trials and tribulations of a seemingly simply task of re-installing the distributor drive gear which ended up taking hours, but after getting the CB Cam Sync installed and then going through a couple hours of getting it configured to run full sequential, the beetle seemingly drives like a new car. I enriched and smoothed a ton of the VE cells in my current tune to ensure I wasn't going to go lean anywhere and removed a few troughs and crests, and then let AutoTune take over. Got into boost a few times, and pretty much just tried to drive it like it never had a problem. It's going to take a few more successful drives for me to trust it like I once did, but man, I can't wait to get some miles on this thing after missing out on the majority of the spring and early summer.
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
My Megasquirt Turbo Build

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Schweg
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo "Beetle"

Post by Schweg » Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:52 pm

Congratulations! I hate gremlins that seem to make no sense. But winning is always awesome.

The trust will come.


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buguy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo "Beetle"

Post by buguy » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:50 pm

That's awesome. Nothing worth having is easy brother!

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Piledriver
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo "Beetle"

Post by Piledriver » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:33 am

Woot!
Addendum to Newtons first law:
The longer a vehicle rests on jackstands,the more likely it is to remain that way...

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kangaboy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo "Beetle"

Post by kangaboy » Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:48 am

Been getting some miles on the bug and had another hiccup that I was able to work around, but wanted to document it here if anyone had future problems or if I fixed it inappropriately.
So to start off, the bug still has a weird little thing going on where it will have several misses when driving down the lane when the motor is cold and started for the first time of the day. I have to assume it is some warm up issue giving too much fuel or too much air, but after a few minutes, it goes away, so I haven't really put much effort into fixing it yet.
Now to the real issue. I have had the AFR Safety system turned on and working in the past with seemingly no issues. So the weird part is that when I initially started having problems a couple months ago, I noticed that it would kick in and kill my engine until the safety parameters were met (under 2k rpm for the most part). So looking into it a bit more, I initially just turned on the Safety system and let it go. Standard settings are something silly like 0.2AFR difference between target and actual AFR. So then if the difference was greater than 0.2 for 0.5 seconds, it would first cut spark, then fuel, and then come back on when rpms were below 2k RPM.
I hopped on the web and did some research, and of course I was led to the Miata Forums (which I have grown to love during my build...those dudes have a lot of experience over there, and it helps they are turboing around the same size motors we're working with). There was several threads regarding the exact issue I was having, and I quickly found out that opening up the allowable difference to allow a bigger gap between target and actual AFR gave me a drivable car again. Prior to adjusting it, every time I would floor it, whether it was in autotune or not, the motor would cut. With this said, the autotune couldn't do its thing and adjust my VE table in the problem areas...which I found weird. Anyway, like I said, I opened the allowable difference up to 2.0 AFR, and changed the time required for this difference to be 2 seconds. I know that opening the difference and time will reduce the actual safety of the Safety system, but after I get my tune sorted and mapped appropriately again, I can close the gaps a bit.
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
My Megasquirt Turbo Build

madmike
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo "Beetle"

Post by madmike » Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:43 am

You have more 'patients' then I , with my adhd I would of ripped that thing apart and went back to a carb :lol:
glad u got it sorted :wink:

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buguy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo "Beetle"

Post by buguy » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:55 am

I had to do something similar with mine. I don't remember exactly what I did, but I think it was something I had come in only in the upper end of the boost level where I felt it was super dangerous.

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kangaboy
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo "Beetle"

Post by kangaboy » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:53 am

Alright, took some time to figure out what was causing the cold stumble prior to the motor being warmed up. Recorded a log the other day when I first started up and drove off. Looked it over and saw that pulse width had several spikes in it and the AFR was going super fat where the surges were occurring. Took a little more time and went through a bunch of different values/graphs on the log and found one called FUEL:Accel PW. I noticed there was a huge spike in this at seemingly random times, and this in turn caused a VE spike and the subsequent stumble. It was too rich and caused misfires or just bad fires. I knew that I had previously messed with the AE a bit in the tune I was using, so I looked back at one of my very first tunes where the Accel Enrichment was unchanged from standard Tuner Studio values adjusted my current tune to incorporate those standard values, and voila, cold stumble is gone!
Now, finally, I am back to where I started prior to all these little hiccups, and even better with a full sequential setup. We seem to be running smooth again. Time to get some mile in!!
'74 Standard- 1776T, MS3X3
'76 Westy- Stock 2.0L L-Jet
My Megasquirt Turbo Build

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Max Welton
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo "Beetle"

Post by Max Welton » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:47 pm

Good job!

Max

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Piledriver
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Re: MS3v3 System for CNP and EFI/Turbo "Beetle"

Post by Piledriver » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:36 am

Awesome!

The base warmup curves in ms are great for chevy v8s , but I found were severe overkill on an acvw.. they had wayyyy too much fuel, for way too long.
With sequential and the heads heating up so fast it really doesnt need much more than a extra shot to start and a few% extra.

The intake port temp really determines how well th fuel/air mix and raw fuel fallout/wall wetting esp at lower rpms, I often considered trying to put the clt sensor in the intake port wall.(may yet)

You can also now play with injection timing, I found that I got the lowest afr with the inj event starting as soon as the intake valve closes, for max time to evaporate on the hot valve and port walls.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
The longer a vehicle rests on jackstands,the more likely it is to remain that way...

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