What's the most boost used

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bug66
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Re: What's the most boost used

Post by bug66 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:43 am

buguy wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:05 pm
bug66 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:00 pm
My 2165cc made 501whp on 32psi.

Aluminium case. 4x10mm studs per cylinder.

No fancy stuff.


32psi is not that much...
That's awesome! What kind of compression was/is that engine?
Good question. It's 1.2mm deck height and as delivered CB Wedgeports (67cc chambers).

It should be 8,1-8,3 or something.
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2165cc T3/T4 turbo, DTA S60 on E85.

Boost was created only to make people smile, and make power! 8)

10.626 @ 132mph SCC2016
10.407 @ 134mph SCC2017
10.221 @ 135mph SCC2018

bug66
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Re: What's the most boost used

Post by bug66 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:45 am

Schweg wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:49 pm
madmike wrote:Dave Kadwell did some dyno testing on 94mm pistons & cyl's I'll try and find them results
I think those split at around 36 psi. But I can’t seem to find the whole article on how it was set up. Blow through or draw through and ignition timing.


I remember reading one some where where a guy saw a 45psi spike due to a severed waste gate line then torched a cylinder head. But who knows as his gauge maxed at 45.


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Splitting a cylinder on a wrongly tuned engine, or other malfunctions are not the same as splitting it by it maxing out it's capabilities.


It will take 45psi on a good tune.
---

2165cc T3/T4 turbo, DTA S60 on E85.

Boost was created only to make people smile, and make power! 8)

10.626 @ 132mph SCC2016
10.407 @ 134mph SCC2017
10.221 @ 135mph SCC2018

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Wally
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Re: What's the most boost used

Post by Wally » Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:28 am

It also has a lot to do with: what fuel is used.

Bug66 runs E85. Big difference with regard to detonation sensitivity and you can much easier run bigger boost, we sometimes forget.

Most I saw was once on the dyno for 'all out' on my old 2,2 type 4 with the short Oettinger/Mahle alu-nikasil barrels: 30psi at 5-5,2K, then dropping back to 24psi or so (turbo was out of airflow) at max power. That was 465 hp (crank, or about 400 rear wheel) at 6300 or so iirc.
I only run on gasoline (E5) btw ;-)
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, under construction
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"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks

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Wally
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Re: What's the most boost used

Post by Wally » Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:32 am

Bug66 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:49 pm

Splitting a cylinder on a wrongly tuned engine, or other malfunctions are not the same as splitting it by it maxing out it's capabilities.
I soooo agree. 99% of all 'split cylinders' do so because of detonation imho, not because of lack of structural integrity.
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, under construction
T1T 1,2ltr Challenge engine
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks

bug66
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Re: What's the most boost used

Post by bug66 » Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:03 am

I've split my share of cylinders..

It's been because of bad vacuum signal (used 1 runner for the fuel regulator..)
It's been because of bad valve springs
It's been because of splitting a silicone coupler

Never because it just could not hold together :mrgreen:
---

2165cc T3/T4 turbo, DTA S60 on E85.

Boost was created only to make people smile, and make power! 8)

10.626 @ 132mph SCC2016
10.407 @ 134mph SCC2017
10.221 @ 135mph SCC2018

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Chip Birks
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Re: What's the most boost used

Post by Chip Birks » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:25 pm

Wally wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:28 am
It also has a lot to do with: what fuel is used.

Bug66 runs E85. Big difference with regard to detonation sensitivity and you can much easier run bigger boost, we sometimes forget.

Most I saw was once on the dyno for 'all out' on my old 2,2 type 4 with the short Oettinger/Mahle alu-nikasil barrels: 30psi at 5-5,2K, then dropping back to 24psi or so (turbo was out of airflow) at max power. That was 465 hp (crank, or about 400 rear wheel) at 6300 or so iirc.
I only run on gasoline (E5) btw ;-)
Didn't you also run a healthy dose of water/methanol while running that high of boost?

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Wally
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Re: What's the most boost used

Post by Wally » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:33 pm

Chip Birks wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:25 pm
Wally wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:28 am
It also has a lot to do with: what fuel is used.

Bug66 runs E85. Big difference with regard to detonation sensitivity and you can much easier run bigger boost, we sometimes forget.

Most I saw was once on the dyno for 'all out' on my old 2,2 type 4 with the short Oettinger/Mahle alu-nikasil barrels: 30psi at 5-5,2K, then dropping back to 24psi or so (turbo was out of airflow) at max power. That was 465 hp (crank, or about 400 rear wheel) at 6300 or so iirc.
I only run on gasoline (E5) btw ;-)
Didn't you also run a healthy dose of water/methanol while running that high of boost?
Indeed! always have used 50-50 water-meth injection, plus big intercooler, plus knock sensing and control (but its still no match for E85).
All because detonation is a bitch!

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buguy
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Re: What's the most boost used

Post by buguy » Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:19 pm

Very interesting. I would have thought it would have started to lift the heads at 40 psi or so.
I'm running stock rods so i won't be trying anything nuts myself, but i was really just more curious than anything. Most likely be limiting myself to 25 psi or so with this turbo. I run E85 most of the time too. Small turbo on a 2054 with 1 3/8" header.

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Wally
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Re: What's the most boost used

Post by Wally » Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:47 pm

buguy wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:19 pm
Very interesting. I
Small turbo on a 2054 with 1 3/8" header.
My opinion (FWIW) on 'small turbos' is maybe even more interesting: they kill motors more then big turbo's.
Another one: your 25 psi is 'completely' different then my 25psi with my turbo...
How about that? :wink:
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, under construction
T1T 1,2ltr Challenge engine
"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks

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buguy
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Re: What's the most boost used

Post by buguy » Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:04 pm

For sure it's different! That may be a whole new topic coming up!

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Schweg
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Re: What's the most boost used

Post by Schweg » Fri Oct 23, 2020 4:06 pm

Is it more a sustained boost issue with the small turbos?

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rubenski
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Re: What's the most boost used

Post by rubenski » Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:34 am

My guess would be a big turbo 25psi is cooler than a small maxed out turbo at 25psi

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madmike
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Re: What's the most boost used

Post by madmike » Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:28 am

Yea if i remember correctly it was 36 lbs, on a draw threw 1915cc , I thinking it was tuned correctly too , Dave knows his $hit :lol:

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buguy
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Re: What's the most boost used

Post by buguy » Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:00 am

Dave definitely knows his $hit. I could have sworn it was much lower boost than that. Seems like i had that link saved but was no longer there.
Edit: found this post about it.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=102753

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Schweg
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Re: What's the most boost used

Post by Schweg » Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:06 am

The forum discussing said 36 for sure. Detonation and a bent wrist pin. They also where running just some aa 94s and showing how you can push not so high performance parts.


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