2016: oil thread new data
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Re: 2016: oil thread new data
I've been a firm believer in running the thinnest oil for the best pressure vs rpm in our acvw's at operating temperature. It's about flow though the bearing to carry away heat but providing the oil wedge and protective film to ensure maximum bearing life. I've never needed to run heavier than a.. 15W40 oil even with our extreme heat we have here. If the engine needs tar to maintain proper pressure then it's been assembled with loose tolerances, is worn out or has other issues.
Remember a late case will bypass the oil cooler at around 45 psi having more pressure than that at operating temps is just wasting the pumped hot oil back to the sump rather than being directed through the cooler and the bearings.
Remember a late case will bypass the oil cooler at around 45 psi having more pressure than that at operating temps is just wasting the pumped hot oil back to the sump rather than being directed through the cooler and the bearings.
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Re: 2016: oil thread new data
It's worse than that. When that hot oil exits from the relief valve, it gains a LOT of heat.
When you pressurize the oil, you are increasing it's potential energy. IOW, pressurized oil can do many things like turn a hydraulic motor in a hydraulic system. When you dump pressurized oil back to the sump through a relief valve, the potential energy that the oil pump put into the oil will instantly convert to heat.
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Re: 2016: oil thread new data
Yeah makes sense as one of the by-products of pressure is heat
- FJCamper
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Re: 2016: oil thread new data
From RetroRacing
Yes, yes, and yes. Run the thinnest oil that will make oil pressure. VW and Porsche 356 engines are designed for volume, not pressure. That's why Porsche never made an oil pressure gauge standard issue in a 356. The MG people were seeing 85 psi at hot idle and a PSI read on a Porsche (5 to 10 psi hot idle) would only cause doubt and confusion.
We run CB Performance dry sumps on our VW-engine race cars, and can get by with 10w30 except in the worst of times, meaning 100-degree days and some kind of external mechanical problem such as oil cooler airflow damage, fan, etc.
The dry sump system stops most of that high-temp oil pressure relief valve dumping as with a two-stage dry sump you literally have two oil pumps working on two different pressure systems. The only time you get dumping is on a cold start for a few minutes until warmup and release of the oil pressure piston. When we cold start, we get 80+ psi on our VDO oil pressure gauge, maxing it. Ten minutes lare, we have about 40 psi.
FJC
Yes, yes, and yes. Run the thinnest oil that will make oil pressure. VW and Porsche 356 engines are designed for volume, not pressure. That's why Porsche never made an oil pressure gauge standard issue in a 356. The MG people were seeing 85 psi at hot idle and a PSI read on a Porsche (5 to 10 psi hot idle) would only cause doubt and confusion.
We run CB Performance dry sumps on our VW-engine race cars, and can get by with 10w30 except in the worst of times, meaning 100-degree days and some kind of external mechanical problem such as oil cooler airflow damage, fan, etc.
The dry sump system stops most of that high-temp oil pressure relief valve dumping as with a two-stage dry sump you literally have two oil pumps working on two different pressure systems. The only time you get dumping is on a cold start for a few minutes until warmup and release of the oil pressure piston. When we cold start, we get 80+ psi on our VDO oil pressure gauge, maxing it. Ten minutes lare, we have about 40 psi.
FJC
Last edited by FJCamper on Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Piledriver
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Re: 2016: oil thread new data
Back when Jake had a working forum, Racer Chris posted some tidbits about his e-production 914 dry sump setup.
He used a modded shcadeck pump... mainly had bigger ports with welded on fittings, and had in/out ports straight through and blocked off the through-pump body outlet.(suits a t4 setup better), as there is already a pair of ports for the oil filter or whatever )
The other main mod on his oil system was the bypass oil circuit routed back to the dry sump tank, so you woulnt have to continually re-pump it out of the damned sump. This can be done with a stock block /bypass setup with some work...
He used a modded shcadeck pump... mainly had bigger ports with welded on fittings, and had in/out ports straight through and blocked off the through-pump body outlet.(suits a t4 setup better), as there is already a pair of ports for the oil filter or whatever )
The other main mod on his oil system was the bypass oil circuit routed back to the dry sump tank, so you woulnt have to continually re-pump it out of the damned sump. This can be done with a stock block /bypass setup with some work...
Last edited by Piledriver on Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
- Dan Dryden
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Re: 2016: oil thread new data
So, I’m in the UK and generally speaking, our climate isn’t hot (except over the last few days where we’ve been experiencing a bit of a heatwave). Should I dump the 5W 30 I’ve just filled my engine with or run with it and just keep an eye on oil temps / pressure readings?.....
I said I thought my engine sounded noisier, but in fairness I hadn’t heard it running for 3 years until last week, so could just be that I’m not used to the noise of the type1 engine and just need to adjust my ears back to what a normal type 1 sounds like.
I said I thought my engine sounded noisier, but in fairness I hadn’t heard it running for 3 years until last week, so could just be that I’m not used to the noise of the type1 engine and just need to adjust my ears back to what a normal type 1 sounds like.
- Dan Dryden
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Re: 2016: oil thread new data
Maybe I should post a video on here of it running..... but always hard to tell from a video.
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Re: 2016: oil thread new data
when my old 1200 was wearing out... i put some halfords 20/50 in it (the stuff in the metal tin) it was noticeably quieter. i think its a by product of a thicker oil.
id run it like you have, do you have a pressure gauge? see what your your oil pressure does and if its too low then change, if not keep it.
i'm going to try some thinner oil also, i used to run 10/60 Millers Competition Racing Oil, but it was costing me about £70 for an oil and filter change regularly..... now i don't mind that so much if its doing its job, but i've just fitted a 30mm pump as I'm going turbo so going to try a thinner oil too and just monitor my oil pressures and see what it likes.
id run it like you have, do you have a pressure gauge? see what your your oil pressure does and if its too low then change, if not keep it.
i'm going to try some thinner oil also, i used to run 10/60 Millers Competition Racing Oil, but it was costing me about £70 for an oil and filter change regularly..... now i don't mind that so much if its doing its job, but i've just fitted a 30mm pump as I'm going turbo so going to try a thinner oil too and just monitor my oil pressures and see what it likes.
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Re: 2016: oil thread new data
I'm running amsoil z-rod 30wt. And it's just about perfect. I would probably try a 20wt if they made it.
- Tony Z
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Re: 2016: oil thread new data
since reading this topic, I have been running Mobil1 5W30 which is on the top end of their list as far a pressure ratings go.
This in a 195hp 2332, with a 26mm Schadeck pump and modified oil system (stock cooler removed, only running external cooler via thermostat). This is in a street car in South Africa, where we hit mid 30s regularly (Celsius)).
Pressure is fine (still higher than 10spi per 1000) when warm, up to around 40psi when I think the relief begins to open.
Sounds the same as it did on 15W40.
This in a 195hp 2332, with a 26mm Schadeck pump and modified oil system (stock cooler removed, only running external cooler via thermostat). This is in a street car in South Africa, where we hit mid 30s regularly (Celsius)).
Pressure is fine (still higher than 10spi per 1000) when warm, up to around 40psi when I think the relief begins to open.
Sounds the same as it did on 15W40.
- Dan Dryden
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Re: 2016: oil thread new data
Mobil 1 5W 30 is what I’ve filled mine with. I’m running a 1776cc turbo engine with 195bhp. My oil pressure sender broke for my gauge but a replacement has arrived.... So I’m going to run with it and see how the pressure and temps are......Tony Z wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:40 pm since reading this topic, I have been running Mobil1 5W30 which is on the top end of their list as far a pressure ratings go.
This in a 195hp 2332, with a 26mm Schadeck pump and modified oil system (stock cooler removed, only running external cooler via thermostat). This is in a street car in South Africa, where we hit mid 30s regularly (Celsius)).
Pressure is fine (still higher than 10spi per 1000) when warm, up to around 40psi when I think the relief begins to open.
Sounds the same as it did on 15W40.
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Re: 2016: oil thread new data
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