REAR suspension un even

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GARRICK.CLARK1
Posts: 283
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:30 am

Re: REAR suspension un even

Post by GARRICK.CLARK1 » Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:12 am

Thanks Lee ,I'll look into this. I don't think it is on the twist as the door gaps and the way close would be affected too surely . The gaps on this bug are all equal .

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: REAR suspension un even

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:09 am

GARRICK.CLARK1 wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:12 am
Thanks Lee ,I'll look into this. I don't think it is on the twist as the door gaps and the way close would be affected too surely . The gaps on this bug are all equal .
I posted it only as another thing to think about; I was warned about checking the pan myself by someone who was in the business and by a couple of discover the problem). My black buggy pan was out of a Baja and it was badly rusted in the floors and a couple of other places in the body so it was also questionable to how it looked hence the advice I got. I did find and fix a problem or two that way.

Lee

And yes, I do have a small twist to the front beam but not enough, for where I ride, to make that much of a difference. I have to check but I think the blue buggy might have a small twist to the frame head also.

GARRICK.CLARK1
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Re: REAR suspension un even

Post by GARRICK.CLARK1 » Sat May 09, 2020 11:03 am

Does anyone bother when they pull rear torsion bars out of there original position.
What I mean is ... BUGS/GHIAS have had the torsion bars fitted for years and have been twisting for years in this position, so if you remove the bars from the car ,you loose the position that they were once fitted ,so re fitting them to a VW you can have the bars fitted and they will be stiffer because they've not been run in the new position ,which makes getting both sides an equal ride height more difficult.

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: REAR suspension un even

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sat May 09, 2020 12:04 pm

https://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopi ... ar+preload

I made this string a long time ago and things have changed somewhat but not so much the basics of it. The chain thing was because I was using a glass buggy and the weight of a stock Bug wasn't there. But the basics are still good but Photobucket messed up the pictures some because I wouldn't pay ransom.

Lee

Bruce2
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Re: REAR suspension un even

Post by Bruce2 » Sun May 10, 2020 6:09 am

GARRICK.CLARK1 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 11:03 am
... ,you loose the position that they were once fitted ,so re fitting them to a VW you can have the bars fitted and they will be stiffer ...
This is false. It doesn't matter how you install the bar, it's spring rate is exactly the same.

eskamobob1
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Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:46 pm

Re: REAR suspension un even

Post by eskamobob1 » Sun May 10, 2020 8:56 am

Bruce2 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 6:09 am
GARRICK.CLARK1 wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 11:03 am
... ,you loose the position that they were once fitted ,so re fitting them to a VW you can have the bars fitted and they will be stiffer ...
This is false. It doesn't matter how you install the bar, it's spring rate is exactly the same.
While true in theory, on trucks at least, you get a non-torsional weakening of torsion bars as they sit slightly bent upwards from bushing failure. Ultimately though, get the car perfectly even by just getting some adjustable spring plates

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: REAR suspension un even

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun May 10, 2020 10:22 am

After resetting the rear torsion bars many times I did discover some things. Stock torsion setting runs in the 19° tp 20° range, I have reset the stock torsion bars as high as 30° but then the suspension seems to largely go away; IOW it gets crazy stiff and scared me. It was more of a feeling I got when driving around on the uneven dunes that got me to back off on the preloading.

I found (my opinion) that the top end of the reset should max out somewhere in the 24° to 26° range. After that newer stronger bars should be looked into. I have also been told that torsion bars take a "set" (hence the marking of RH or LH on the ends of the bars) and then can be more capable of failing.

Lee

GARRICK.CLARK1
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Re: REAR suspension un even

Post by GARRICK.CLARK1 » Sun May 10, 2020 2:31 pm

Ok. SO if I start again, strip down both spring plates and fit them at an equal degree , lift them onto the stops ,bolt it all back together, the rear of my bug should be equal height both sides.
Hope so .
I do have a level floor in the work shop.
I'll over kill measure it. Its been 1/2" lower on 1 side for too long.

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: REAR suspension un even

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun May 10, 2020 3:33 pm

setting the angle of preload 02.jpg
Make sure the pan is parallel to the floor or you will have to do some math to correct the angles. This is about 26°. Remember that you can use both ends of the torsion bar to rotate into the setting you want as they are each splined differently. This photo is set at full relax; e.g., no loading on it at all.

Lee
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eskamobob1
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Re: REAR suspension un even

Post by eskamobob1 » Sun May 10, 2020 5:34 pm

Dont bother making sure the pan is level. Just get the angle of the main tunnel and use that as your reference frame

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: REAR suspension un even

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Sun May 10, 2020 9:51 pm

eskamobob1 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 5:34 pm
Dont bother making sure the pan is level. Just get the angle of the main tunnel and use that as your reference frame
" … or you will have to do some math to correct the angles." That is what I was referring to. I think the tunnel and the sides of the pan are/should be in alignment.

Lee

eskamobob1
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Re: REAR suspension un even

Post by eskamobob1 » Sun May 10, 2020 10:07 pm

Ol'fogasaurus wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 9:51 pm
eskamobob1 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 5:34 pm
Dont bother making sure the pan is level. Just get the angle of the main tunnel and use that as your reference frame
" … or you will have to do some math to correct the angles." That is what I was referring to. I think the tunnel and the sides of the pan are/should be in alignment.

Lee
Lol. Not how I read that at first, but I now see I was just being brain dead. Honestly though, a digital angel finder

Honestly though, a digita angel finder you can zero on the tunnel is like $20. Its such a useful tool too

Ol'fogasaurus
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Re: REAR suspension un even

Post by Ol'fogasaurus » Mon May 11, 2020 12:29 am

eskamobob1 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:07 pm
Ol'fogasaurus wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 9:51 pm
eskamobob1 wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 5:34 pm
Dont bother making sure the pan is level. Just get the angle of the main tunnel and use that as your reference frame
" … or you will have to do some math to correct the angles." That is what I was referring to. I think the tunnel and the sides of the pan are/should be in alignment.

Lee
Lol. Not how I read that at first, but I now see I was just being brain dead. Honestly though, a digital angel finder

Honestly though, a digital angel finder you can zero on the tunnel is like $20. Its such a useful tool too
Your not brain dead; what I wrote probably wasn't clear as I was in a hurry as I was in the middle of something else I was doing here at home.

The digital angle finder that is shown in the picture is so handy... most of the time anyway; I also use bubble gauges and other similar tools for setup and some do help on angles also. If you measure the angle the pan or tunnel that is not perpendicular then you have to add or subtract (the math part) that angle from the angle you are measuring in order to come up with where you are.

Whether I am using jack stands or my rotisserie I try to set things up parallel to the floor before I get too detailed in what I am trying to do. Just part of the ritual and it makes things easier after the proper setup work is done :wink: :lol: .

Lee

Bruce.m
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Re: REAR suspension un even

Post by Bruce.m » Mon May 11, 2020 2:52 am

Your average smartphone has a digital level built in.
I’d suggest getting the pan level side to side, to avoid any complication. I’d also level front-to-back (but that’s me ;) )or at least close, then zero the level using the flat area of the tunnel that VW provided.

Also lift the spring plate by hand to take up the backlash in the splines, when measuring.

GARRICK.CLARK1
Posts: 283
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Re: REAR suspension un even

Post by GARRICK.CLARK1 » Mon May 11, 2020 3:54 am

I've down loaded a clinometer off google play. Its digital down to 0.1 degree ,so as long as I'm equal both sides at 26 degrees I should be good, I'll level the car front to back, left to right
Thanks for the good advice

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