Performance Street Tires for a Buggy
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Re: Performance Street Tires for a Buggy
Even in our rail with a long front end it was a challenge getting a top mount pedals in when we converted from the floor mount CNC's - even ended up chopping the front cross out and remaking it just to get them in.
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Re: Performance Street Tires for a Buggy
If you can do it "swing pedals" are easier to use. Pointing your toes, especially if it is a long travel and/or you are sitting low like in a rail, can be difficult and tiresome. I wish now that I had gone ahead and done it myself.
Lee
Lee
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Re: Performance Street Tires for a Buggy
That's why they got changed, it was hell on ankles especially with a race clutch in there, forever pivoting around your foot and taking the pedals over centre rather than using your knee and thigh muscles.
Far more comfortable with top mounts, makes a lot of difference to how fast you're still going after a weekend of racing!
Far more comfortable with top mounts, makes a lot of difference to how fast you're still going after a weekend of racing!
- ChadH
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Re: Performance Street Tires for a Buggy
The super grippy soft rubber on a high performance will be terrific at first, but it will age faster than a street tire. Maybe if you keep the tires stored out of the sun, in a cool quiet place (with soft music playing in the background) and wrap them in Saran wrap when not in use, they won't harden too fast. They will degrade at some point where a more standard summer tire will be better. Where on the timeline is that crossover point? I Dunno.
- GS guy
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Re: Performance Street Tires for a Buggy
Thanks Chad - that's some very useful information. The car will be stored in a garage, but subject to uncontrolled temperatures (whatever it is outside). Small windows means not much Sun gets in. The Kuhmo (now "vintage") Ecsta tires on my wheels now look to have aged very little over the several years they've been only used for mock-up. Even when new though, I was told they were not very good for any real performance driving - but they were inexpensive!
FWIW, I was originally wanting to find lighter wheels that would work with my suspension and the necessary offsets, possibly downsizing to 15" wheels. I wanted to stay with a 7" front and ideally a 10" wide rear wheel. Performance tires for the front in that size are fairly plentiful, but the rear is real slim pick'ns. I found a 265/50-15 in a few brands (similar performance to TA radial), and there's the 275/50 Nitto drag radial (which I've read has pretty good corner carving capabilities too!). That's about it for 15" wide but low profile tires. The 295/50-15 is IMO just too big in diameter for the look I'm going for. Also I couldn't really find any "lightweight" wheels in these sizes either, especially factoring in the offsets I need - unless I want to start dropping some BIG $$$ for custom or real racing wheels - $1K+ per wheel anyone??? I'd love to find some vintage Gotti's or Jongbloed wheels that would work (and used - affordable) but that's a reeeeeal long shot! I "may" eventually splurge for some more reasonably priced Torque Thrusts which would save me a few lbs/corner, probably keep my 7"F/9.5"R widths in the larger diameters of my current wheels.
Jeff
I'll probably look for something in the UTQG 300 range. Seems like a good balance for grip, longevity and fewer undesirable side effects of the softer higher performance tires.FWIW, I was originally wanting to find lighter wheels that would work with my suspension and the necessary offsets, possibly downsizing to 15" wheels. I wanted to stay with a 7" front and ideally a 10" wide rear wheel. Performance tires for the front in that size are fairly plentiful, but the rear is real slim pick'ns. I found a 265/50-15 in a few brands (similar performance to TA radial), and there's the 275/50 Nitto drag radial (which I've read has pretty good corner carving capabilities too!). That's about it for 15" wide but low profile tires. The 295/50-15 is IMO just too big in diameter for the look I'm going for. Also I couldn't really find any "lightweight" wheels in these sizes either, especially factoring in the offsets I need - unless I want to start dropping some BIG $$$ for custom or real racing wheels - $1K+ per wheel anyone??? I'd love to find some vintage Gotti's or Jongbloed wheels that would work (and used - affordable) but that's a reeeeeal long shot! I "may" eventually splurge for some more reasonably priced Torque Thrusts which would save me a few lbs/corner, probably keep my 7"F/9.5"R widths in the larger diameters of my current wheels.
Jeff
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- ChadH
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Re: Performance Street Tires for a Buggy
Maybe have a look at Federal 595-RR. They're a "budget" 200 treadwear autocross tire. I'm not sure what range of sizes they come in, and you'll need to look for a shop that carries them. They might be cheap enough to just replace them once a year, regardless of wear.
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/y87my78/
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/y87my78/
- GS guy
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Re: Performance Street Tires for a Buggy
Those Federals are some Sa-Weet looking tires! I found some sizes that would work in the 595 RS-R series, and it has a slightly higher 220 rating (a hair more "street", a hair less "race")
Interesting back story - when I first started building the GS the original plan was a general clean-up and re-build, keeping the standard SA trans and Corvair engine, with BJ beam front suspension. Boy - that sure would have been easier! I purchased wheels to fit the SA long axle set-up, along with the beam front end with custom Wilwood brakes, all set up with 5x4.5" bolt circle. To get everything under the fenders I was able to special order custom offsets, +13 (4.5" BS) up front, and -6 (5" BS) rear at a very reasonable price at the time. This fit perfect with the original suspension set-up.
Then the plan changed - more POWA with turbo Subie, 5-speed Porsche transaxle along with custom rear suspension (no longer SA based), continued further with semi-custom A-arm front suspension. Since I already had the wheels I made the new suspension work with them. Switching to new wheels, unfortunately, means the less expensive (<$200/wheel) readily available aftermarket wheels all have the wrong offsets to work with my as-designed and built set-up. That means either tires hanging outside the bodywork, or funky adapter/spacers to adapt higher + offset wheels (adding more weight), or custom offset wheels (= $$$!). I'll just have to wait and see when I get the chassis assembled and can articulate the wheels under the bodywork. Easy enough to stack up some washers underneath to simulate less backspacing and check the overall fit and look.
Jeff
Interesting back story - when I first started building the GS the original plan was a general clean-up and re-build, keeping the standard SA trans and Corvair engine, with BJ beam front suspension. Boy - that sure would have been easier! I purchased wheels to fit the SA long axle set-up, along with the beam front end with custom Wilwood brakes, all set up with 5x4.5" bolt circle. To get everything under the fenders I was able to special order custom offsets, +13 (4.5" BS) up front, and -6 (5" BS) rear at a very reasonable price at the time. This fit perfect with the original suspension set-up.
Then the plan changed - more POWA with turbo Subie, 5-speed Porsche transaxle along with custom rear suspension (no longer SA based), continued further with semi-custom A-arm front suspension. Since I already had the wheels I made the new suspension work with them. Switching to new wheels, unfortunately, means the less expensive (<$200/wheel) readily available aftermarket wheels all have the wrong offsets to work with my as-designed and built set-up. That means either tires hanging outside the bodywork, or funky adapter/spacers to adapt higher + offset wheels (adding more weight), or custom offset wheels (= $$$!). I'll just have to wait and see when I get the chassis assembled and can articulate the wheels under the bodywork. Easy enough to stack up some washers underneath to simulate less backspacing and check the overall fit and look.
Jeff
- woodsbuggy1
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Re: Performance Street Tires for a Buggy
Thanks for posting this, just order some Federal tires with the 220 UTQG for the front of my buggy, wish they offered 275/60/15 for the rear.
Kenric
Kenric
Good quality is getting harder and harder to find.
- woodsbuggy1
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Re: Performance Street Tires for a Buggy
I found the 205/50/15 for $77 each shipped on Ebay.
Good quality is getting harder and harder to find.
- GS guy
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Re: Performance Street Tires for a Buggy
Several brands available in 275/60-15 woodsbuggy, just no serious performance tires I've found except a couple of drag radials. Cooper, TA, Hankook H101 seem to be the most popular 400 UTQG "street" tires. Nitto NT555R (100 UTQG) is the only "performance" tire I've seen in that size. The tire that intrigues me is called Galaxy R1 Radial GT. I gather it is a fairly recent "import" brand, but it is V speed rated. I think it is also rated at 400 UTQG (only found one ebay ad that lists this, so may or may not be accurate?). The R1 is also available in a 265/50-15, FWIW.
There's also Mickey Thompson tires with a couple in 275/60 size, but hard to gauge what level of performance those tires have?
Jeff
There's also Mickey Thompson tires with a couple in 275/60 size, but hard to gauge what level of performance those tires have?
Jeff
- woodsbuggy1
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Re: Performance Street Tires for a Buggy
Jeff, I ended up ordering Atturo AZ800 275/60r15 for the rear, UTQG 420AA. They were just under $200 shipped for a pair, the tread pattern is also similar to the Federal tires. I am hoping that having softer tires in the front will help my turning ability with a light front end. Time will tell, if I have made good tire choices.
Good quality is getting harder and harder to find.
- GS guy
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Re: Performance Street Tires for a Buggy
Do keep us posted woodsbuggy on how the tire combo works out.
Jeff
Jeff
- woodsbuggy1
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Re: Performance Street Tires for a Buggy
It will be a few months until it is warm enough in Indiana to try these out (still have plenty of work to do to buggy too) but will let you know how I like them.
Kenric
Kenric
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Good quality is getting harder and harder to find.
- GS guy
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Re: Performance Street Tires for a Buggy
Update on this thread. Over the winter I decided to take the plunge and "backdate" my wheels to 15" sizes. Primarily to save weight but also I've found that I'm not that crazy about the "look" of larger diameter wheels on a fiberglass buggy. I thought I would way back when I bought the Centerlines (shown earlier), but now not so much.
For the money and classic looks, American Racing Torque Thrusts were high on my list. To my eye, they look really good on a Deserter buggy (or any buggy), I've never had them on any cars I've owned over the decades, and the TT2 is available in custom offsets. They're also a bunch lighter, not a super lightweight wheel but definately an improvement over what I have.
Fronts are 15 x 7, with 4.25" BS, rears 15 x 10, with 4.75" BS. These specs keep the wheels & tires right at the edges of the bodywork and I was able to pick them up from Summit, with sale pricing < $350/wheel. The bonus is the weights: front 15.5lbs, rear 17.2lbs. Not fly weights, but finding wheels that shave even a pound or 2 off these and the cost goes up exponentially - so a good balance of cost vs weight vs looks. A solid Win in my book!
Now for the tires. On the front I'm going for 195/50. Plenty of options in that size. Rears are a bit trickier. I want to stay at around a 265-275 width and maintain the 50 series profile. The 295/50 is much more readily available, but again to my eye it's not quite the look I'm going for. For a street/performance tire, about the only thing available is the Nitto 555R in 275/50, with UTQG 100. With that tire I'd probably fit the front with a Hankook Ventus RS4, UTQG 200. A "less performance" combo would be a 265/50 in either Hankook Ventus H101 (UTQG 400) or Vitour Galaxy R1, with front Yoko Advan Fleva V701 or BFG Gforce Sport Comp 2 (both around UTQG 300). Holding off on the final choices/purchase until I get much closer to completion of the buggy vs letting the tires "age in place"!
Jeff
For the money and classic looks, American Racing Torque Thrusts were high on my list. To my eye, they look really good on a Deserter buggy (or any buggy), I've never had them on any cars I've owned over the decades, and the TT2 is available in custom offsets. They're also a bunch lighter, not a super lightweight wheel but definately an improvement over what I have.
Fronts are 15 x 7, with 4.25" BS, rears 15 x 10, with 4.75" BS. These specs keep the wheels & tires right at the edges of the bodywork and I was able to pick them up from Summit, with sale pricing < $350/wheel. The bonus is the weights: front 15.5lbs, rear 17.2lbs. Not fly weights, but finding wheels that shave even a pound or 2 off these and the cost goes up exponentially - so a good balance of cost vs weight vs looks. A solid Win in my book!
Now for the tires. On the front I'm going for 195/50. Plenty of options in that size. Rears are a bit trickier. I want to stay at around a 265-275 width and maintain the 50 series profile. The 295/50 is much more readily available, but again to my eye it's not quite the look I'm going for. For a street/performance tire, about the only thing available is the Nitto 555R in 275/50, with UTQG 100. With that tire I'd probably fit the front with a Hankook Ventus RS4, UTQG 200. A "less performance" combo would be a 265/50 in either Hankook Ventus H101 (UTQG 400) or Vitour Galaxy R1, with front Yoko Advan Fleva V701 or BFG Gforce Sport Comp 2 (both around UTQG 300). Holding off on the final choices/purchase until I get much closer to completion of the buggy vs letting the tires "age in place"!
Jeff
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- GS guy
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Re: Performance Street Tires for a Buggy
Another quick update. I decided, considering the potential pitfalls of "real" performance tires (early aging, storage issues, flat spotting) and considering 99% of usage will be street cruising, a general street tire is probably a better bet. I decided to go with the Vitour Galaxy R1 for the rear and ordered a pair. I really wanted a 265/50 size to keep the low profile and OD <26". Going for the look of the '60's street buggies that ran real Indy tires on the back! Few tires in that size, just the Vitour, Hankook H101 (which seems to be discontinued?), a newer Hankook Kinergy ST (looks further from a performance tire than the H101) and the Mickey Thompson (big $$$). Everything I could find on reviews of the Vitour (UTQG 400, H speed rated) indicated a very "grippy" tire, with maybe better performance than the typical Radial TA, Cooper Cobra and similar. I need a wider tire to fit my 10" rims, and after seeing the standard "go-to" 295/50 on several buggies, wanted something not quite that big. Ordered from Performance Plus Tire through Amazon, should be here in a few days. I was concerned about long term availability of these tires too so bit the bullet and purchased them, even though they probably won't be mounted until sometime this spring/summer. For the front I'm probably going with a Yokohama Advan Fleva (UTQG 300 and V speed rated) but will wait until I'm closer to needing them to purchase. They'll definitely give me the "big 'n little" look I'm going for and should provide good overall grip on the street.