So I have a tough one I keep going back and forth on. The next step in my build is to upgrade my wheel/tire package and I am stuck between two fundamentally different options. This is an exclusively street driven car but, being my daily, I need good wet performance (so cal, so no snow) and I like cars with great grip.
17" wheels with 215/45R17 Pilot Sport 4S
15" wheels with 205/50R15 Extreme Contact Sports
I'm just being dumb and you guys are going to recommend a way better option than either or
I fully realize that either of these options would likely be significantly over tireing my car, but you can always get shittier tires in the size and cant always go up. Here are my takes on the Pros and Cons of each.
PS4S
Pros
These are only a 3% smaller circumference than stock and would not require immediate regearing to keep the car highway safe. They also likely have higher total grip than the smaller ECSs while maintaining good wet traction. These should also fit without making the arch of the fender look super weird because of the much smaller wheel radius (not a big deal tbf since I am going fiberglass fenders anyways)
Cons
17" wheels are heavy The absolute lightest I can go is about 16lbs ea and I am not certain they would fit over the dust cover of the front wheels. To guarantee that without further research I would need to go to 20lbs ea making my wheel/tire package 40lbs/corner. Higher rotational interia, but im that should be somewhat overcome by engine power, but it is something to think about given the lower power nature of the gars in general.
ECS
Pros
Very light. 30lbs for wheel/tire is 100% doable. 40+lbs total less unpring weight total on a 2000lbs car(I think ~5-10% less total unspring) obviously makes a massive difference in the mass damping effect the rest of the car has on shock loads. Much lower rotational inertia (both because of the smaller diameter and the lighter weight).
Cons
Less total grip than the PS4Ss (part due to width, part due to compound). Required immediate regearing to keep the car able to do highways speeds (about the same drop between stock tires and this and a stock trans and a 3.44 R&P luckily, but this is still the biggest problem). Given that I am likely to do a 2.5" drop all around either way, this leaves me with a 5" total drop which would probably be *real* close to too low for a daily (if not already there).
What direction do you guys think I should go? Ultimately the plan is to use either a subie trans conversion or a berg5, so I can kinda gear however I want for the final product, but both of those are about a year further down the line to be done when I do my engine so I have to live with it until then. Did I miss an option that makes up for all the issues I have?
Last edited by eskamobob1 on Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My plan is to spend the next year getting my suspension, controls (pedals, steering wheel, seats, etc), and body dialed in and getting ready for the new engine+trans (shifter will obviously have to wait for trans). As for fitment of the wheels, I have been able to determine both will fit without major interference if I got 2" wider fenders already, but I am aware I need to determine my final offset front and back before I order wheels (especially since I dont want to add weight with spacers if at all possible)
With those tire sizes it looks like you'll need 7" or 7.5" wide wheels to fully utilize the tread. That implies you're going with something other than the VW bolt pattern - Porsche? Other?
To my eye, the right set of 17" look really good on a properly stanced VW. 15" also look good, more "old school". Depending on backspacing, 15" can interfere with the lower ball joint with dropped spindles. The Mich's are amazing tires, can't go wrong there.
If you're wheel shopping and willing to change from the stock bolt pattern, check out the Miata fitments. They have many lightweight and reasonably priced aftermarket wheels available with nice range of widths (15" and 17"). Once you get into 2 & 3 piece lightweight wheels + $$$$!
Jeff
Correct. I talked to some some spec miata friends i have and they said basically you can run the 205/50s on 5.5", but 7 (or maybe even is really what is recommended for basically anything other than the extreme contact sports in that size. The most options would be if I go 4x100, but I am worried about the hub bore on something that small actual clearing the dust cap. 5x130 would be ideal, but there doesnt really seem to be a lot out there sub 11lbs or so for 15x7s (except mag gasburners, but im not sure im comfortable with mags from the 70s from a safety point of view). The Wheels I am leaning towards right now are spoon sw388s for either the size options. There are some lightish options in 5x130, but I honestly dont like the looks of most of them on my orange bug. As for the money, I have pretty well resigned myself to the fact that 15s under 10lbs and 17s under 20 will be 2-3k for the set
I have been wrestling with the same dilema as I am upgrading my wheels and tyres. I have 205/60 15 on 7" rims at the rear and 195/55 on 6" at the front, but really sticky tyres are getting hard to find in the 205/60 size, I have considered 205/55 15 as there are more R spec tyres available, but for me, with a 3.88 it is not perfect gearing. Broadly I think wider than 195 on the front is just extra unsprung weight and the wheel and tyre are less compliant to the road when braking. The rear is a bit less of an issue because you are not trying to steer as well as spin them.
I really like the idea of 15" wheels on our light cars because the weight is so much lighter than 17", but I've also looked closely at lotus Elise sizes as they are close to the right height and so many more to choose from . 195/50 16 (6" rim fronts) and 225/45 17 (8" rim rears) are available in Avon ZZS, Toyo's R88R/Proxes, Yoko AO48, Dunlop DZ102, Kumho Ecsta, NanKang NS-2R and quite a few others.
My though was get custom wheels in the 16/17" and get them made light to compensate for the extra diameter but I am still weighing (ha ha) it all up.
Let us know what you decide
As a safety measure: check for the weight carrying limits on the tires too. For example: if you are going to run tires designed for a 3000# plus vehicle on an 1800# vehicle there could be problems with the sidewalls working as you might need plus the contact patch on the pavement might be much smaller.
is really what is recommended for basically anything other than the extreme contact sports in that size. The most options would be if I go 4x100, but I am worried about the hub bore on something that small actual clearing the dust cap. 5x130 would be ideal, but there doesnt really seem to be a lot out there sub 11lbs or so for 15x7s (except mag gasburners, but im not sure im comfortable with mags from the 70s from a safety point of view). The Wheels I am leaning towards right now are spoon sw388s for either the size options. There are some lightish options in 5x130, but I honestly dont like the looks of most of them on my orange bug. As for the money, I have pretty well resigned myself to the fact that 15s under 10lbs and 17s under 20 will be 2-3k for the set