DIY Narrowed Front Beam
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DIY Narrowed Front Beam
First, a primer: I have a '74 Standard Sunbug. I used to be up to speed in the VW scene back in the early-mid '90's. Marriage, trade school, and lots of moving/overtime have kept me away from keeping tabs. My '74 is my first car. I was fortunate to be able to keep it all these years (in my late 40's, now). With that, I'm starting from square one. Bear in mind: my information was limited to Hot VWs and VW Trends mags and swap meets. Now, it seems almost worse having the internet at my fingertips. SO MANY "SOURCES". I'm left with more questions than answers.
I want to lower it in the front and back. I'm thinking maybe an inch or so in the rear. I'll worry about that nightmare, later. In the meantime, I found a couple of donor Beetles to cannibalize in order to restore mine. My front beam was rusted out. The 2 beams on the donor bugs look to be in good enough condition to save. I have a 220v mig welder and I'm fair at using it. Has anyone narrowed their own beams? If so, do you have links? My purpose in narrowing is to fit dropped spindles and convert to disc brakes. Heard the disc brake conversion pushes the wheels out enough to cause the tires to rub the fender.
I want to lower it in the front and back. I'm thinking maybe an inch or so in the rear. I'll worry about that nightmare, later. In the meantime, I found a couple of donor Beetles to cannibalize in order to restore mine. My front beam was rusted out. The 2 beams on the donor bugs look to be in good enough condition to save. I have a 220v mig welder and I'm fair at using it. Has anyone narrowed their own beams? If so, do you have links? My purpose in narrowing is to fit dropped spindles and convert to disc brakes. Heard the disc brake conversion pushes the wheels out enough to cause the tires to rub the fender.
- Chip Birks
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Re: DIY Narrowed Front Beam
It's definitely doable. I've not done it. But there are folks on here that have. Buguy on here has, it might be worth sending him a private message, or maybe he'll see this. However, there are lots of well priced new options out there now. CB sells a really nice 2" narrowed/adjustable height beam for a really fair price. Makes it hard for me to want to try working on greasy/rusty 50 year old junk.
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Re: DIY Narrowed Front Beam
Another way is to use the stock width and get some steel wheels made with a bit more offset to compensate for the extra width of the drop spindles.
I cut the centres out of stock rims my self and bought new 6 and 7 inch outer rims, trued them up, tacked them and got a local welder to weld them for me. (peace of mind)
the stock width beam rides better and maintains better steering geometry than a narrowed beam. I did weld in avis adjusters to fine tune the height.
I cut the centres out of stock rims my self and bought new 6 and 7 inch outer rims, trued them up, tacked them and got a local welder to weld them for me. (peace of mind)
the stock width beam rides better and maintains better steering geometry than a narrowed beam. I did weld in avis adjusters to fine tune the height.
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Re: DIY Narrowed Front Beam
The insetting or off-setting of rims can cause different loading on the wheel bearings and spindles. Us'n old farts (supposedly anyway) learned that the hard way a long time ago but it is still being done . Just keep a closer eye on the bearings and races than you normally would expect to assuming you haven't exaugurated the off-set too much.
We use to see broken lug nuts ("Babbit Beaters" did that anyway in the front especially), spindles and bearing problems when too much off-set was done. Did I do it... in the rear only which is not saying I did right either because there are bearings in the rear also but they are a bit better designed... at least in some cars they are . One of the reasons I am not too happy when I see bolt on stud pattern adapters or off-set spacers.
Lee
We use to see broken lug nuts ("Babbit Beaters" did that anyway in the front especially), spindles and bearing problems when too much off-set was done. Did I do it... in the rear only which is not saying I did right either because there are bearings in the rear also but they are a bit better designed... at least in some cars they are . One of the reasons I am not too happy when I see bolt on stud pattern adapters or off-set spacers.
Lee
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Re: DIY Narrowed Front Beam
I understand your sentiment on working on something grimy. And, I've been quoting out ones from places such as CB. But I want to do as much as I can myself. I'm an aircraft mechanic of 26 years. Getting dirty doesn't bother me in the least. A penny saved is a penny earned.Chip Birks wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:48 pm It's definitely doable. I've not done it. But there are folks on here that have. Buguy on here has, it might be worth sending him a private message, or maybe he'll see this. However, there are lots of well priced new options out there now. CB sells a really nice 2" narrowed/adjustable height beam for a really fair price. Makes it hard for me to want to try working on greasy/rusty 50 year old junk.
I'm open to keeping the stock width. I just don't want to go through the whole thing leaving it stock, getting the dropped spindles and disc brake conversion installed, put everything together...only to find my wheels rub. I would rather use other peoples' school of hard knocks as lessons learned, suffice to say.
I didn't know it would upset the steering geometry if the total width of the wheelbase nets the same. That's good to know.
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Re: DIY Narrowed Front Beam
Shane, since you have a '74 ,Bug then a simple one inch or so lowering of the rig should be fairly simple with the front end being the hardest to do.Shane Tuttle wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:06 pm First, a primer: I have a '74 Standard Sunbug. I used to be up to speed in the VW scene back in the early-mid '90's. Marriage, trade school, and lots of moving/overtime have kept me away from keeping tabs. My '74 is my first car. I was fortunate to be able to keep it all these years (in my late 40's, now). With that, I'm starting from square one. Bear in mind: my information was limited to Hot VWs and VW Trends mags and swap meets. Now, it seems almost worse having the internet at my fingertips. SO MANY "SOURCES". I'm left with more questions than answers.
I want to lower it in the front and back. I'm thinking maybe an inch or so in the rear. I'll worry about that nightmare, later. In the meantime, I found a couple of donor Beetles to cannibalize in order to restore mine. My front beam was rusted out. The 2 beams on the donor bugs look to be in good enough condition to save. I have a 220v mig welder and I'm fair at using it. Has anyone narrowed their own beams? If so, do you have links? My purpose in narrowing is to fit dropped spindles and convert to disc brakes. Heard the disc brake conversion pushes the wheels out enough to cause the tires to rub the fender.
With a Ball-joint front beam adjuster could be added to both tubes allowing you to raise or lower the front of the car if the car is to be kept level. If there is going to be a rake added then shimming the lower beam to keep the 6° angle in place. Also, with the adjusters you could also use the upper adjuster to change the stiffness of the ride if you wanted to. Do a search and you will find both videos or instructions. Read the instructions carefully and mark out the info in K&L beam adjuster as they are usually in the mix and can cause confusion.
The adjusters are fairly simple to do... even I have done it. You have what sounds like a good welder so it shouldn't be a hard thing to do (besides you have two beams to play with ) .
On the rear you could reset the torsion bars by changing their torsion bar angle by a degree or two. More than that you might need to do some other things.
I would change/upgrade the shock both front and rear anyway.
Lee
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Re: DIY Narrowed Front Beam
Thanks for the input, Lee.
I thought the rear was going to be the the harder one to adjust. Having a hard time finding the tool people use to compress the spring tension.
I thought the rear was going to be the the harder one to adjust. Having a hard time finding the tool people use to compress the spring tension.
- Chip Birks
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Re: DIY Narrowed Front Beam
Tool not required, though it is the safest way. I've never used one.Shane Tuttle wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:25 pm Thanks for the input, Lee.
I thought the rear was going to be the the harder one to adjust. Having a hard time finding the tool people use to compress the spring tension.
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Re: DIY Narrowed Front Beam
https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Rear-Spri ... n-tool.htm
This tool can be found at most VW parts sites on line. I advise a couple of additions added. The head can unscrew so weld better (at least mine was bad). Add two washers between the "winged nut" and the lower part of the bar that goes up and down. Add a second nut as a jam nut or if the winged nut starts to back off. Adding one washer helps wind the clamp up and two makes it easier. Most people don't realize that the washer can do this even on regular nuts and bolts.
By all means do not put a hand, fingers, head, body below the spring plate as the amount of time it takes to open up to a relaxed position and the jumping up and down it does during the unloading can't really be seen. Also put a clamp on the spring plate to the torsion side of where the adjusting tool sits on the spring plate to keep the spring plate from sliding down the spring plate.
I did a post back years ago on how to do it using a floor jack (https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Rear-Spri ... n-tool.htm). Dangerous I know... now but not back then. You also have to put a chain from the pan to the front beam on the floor jack and the front of the jack will rise during the process.
Lee
This tool can be found at most VW parts sites on line. I advise a couple of additions added. The head can unscrew so weld better (at least mine was bad). Add two washers between the "winged nut" and the lower part of the bar that goes up and down. Add a second nut as a jam nut or if the winged nut starts to back off. Adding one washer helps wind the clamp up and two makes it easier. Most people don't realize that the washer can do this even on regular nuts and bolts.
By all means do not put a hand, fingers, head, body below the spring plate as the amount of time it takes to open up to a relaxed position and the jumping up and down it does during the unloading can't really be seen. Also put a clamp on the spring plate to the torsion side of where the adjusting tool sits on the spring plate to keep the spring plate from sliding down the spring plate.
I did a post back years ago on how to do it using a floor jack (https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Rear-Spri ... n-tool.htm). Dangerous I know... now but not back then. You also have to put a chain from the pan to the front beam on the floor jack and the front of the jack will rise during the process.
Lee
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Re: DIY Narrowed Front Beam
The chain is to keep the jack from just lifting the bug up not putting pressure on the suspension to allow you to get the spring plate to lift off the stop on the beam so you can move the spring plate over allowing you to then slowly let the pressure off the floor jack.
The stock torsion preload spec. runs around 19° give or take. Check your book for the year and you should get the pre-load for that year. Also remember that both ends of the torsion bar are splined and by resetting one or both ends of the torsion bar you can get to the angle you want.
In ways, this is kind of like the old trick of cutting coils to lower the car but with cutting (or heating the coils) you can stiffen up the coil over suspension. This just softens the suspension up a bit hence the probably needed change in shocks.
Lee
The stock torsion preload spec. runs around 19° give or take. Check your book for the year and you should get the pre-load for that year. Also remember that both ends of the torsion bar are splined and by resetting one or both ends of the torsion bar you can get to the angle you want.
In ways, this is kind of like the old trick of cutting coils to lower the car but with cutting (or heating the coils) you can stiffen up the coil over suspension. This just softens the suspension up a bit hence the probably needed change in shocks.
Lee
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Re: DIY Narrowed Front Beam
Thx, again, Lee. I was surprised I missed it searching on aircooled.net's site. But I saw that it was in the off-road section. We're compiling a huge laundry list of needed parts from them. Since they charge shipping, we're looking to make a long weekend trip down to Utah next spring and visit them to save on shipping.
- Chip Birks
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Re: DIY Narrowed Front Beam
Where are you coming from? Hopefully this will Rona stuff is declining by spring. Otherwise, I don't think aircooled.net is taking warehouse visits right now. I'm local to them.Shane Tuttle wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:29 pm Thx, again, Lee. I was surprised I missed it searching on aircooled.net's site. But I saw that it was in the off-road section. We're compiling a huge laundry list of needed parts from them. Since they charge shipping, we're looking to make a long weekend trip down to Utah next spring and visit them to save on shipping.
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Re: DIY Narrowed Front Beam
I live north of Missoula, Montana. Of course, it will depend on Corona and their policies. Even if they don't allow warehouse visits, I couldn't imagine them not doing some kind of curbside delivery.Chip Birks wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:34 pmWhere are you coming from? Hopefully this will Rona stuff is declining by spring. Otherwise, I don't think aircooled.net is taking warehouse visits right now. I'm local to them.Shane Tuttle wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:29 pm Thx, again, Lee. I was surprised I missed it searching on aircooled.net's site. But I saw that it was in the off-road section. We're compiling a huge laundry list of needed parts from them. Since they charge shipping, we're looking to make a long weekend trip down to Utah next spring and visit them to save on shipping.