1.9 and 2.1 case differences?

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

1.9 case
84mm CW Crank
Type 1 rods
101.6 P/C
Turbo, MS fuel and spark.

Air or water cooled ?

Air

[Unkl Ian]

Type 1 rods
101.6 P/C

Air or water cooled ?

Air

Who sells 4" p/c with 22mm pins ?

4" is a common size for SBC, but the pins are .927".

[tencentlife]

Reading this, it still seems a muddle. Let's see if I can sum it up accurately:

1.9 cases use Type1 mains in positions 2,3,and 4. The #1 thrust bearing is the same style but a different size and neither T1 nor T4 thrust bearings will fit. It has the journal and saddle diameters of a T4 but the saddle width is different. All 4 bearings locate by dowel pins ala T1 and T4.

You should still be able to buy a set of std./std. 1.9 mains. But if you want to go that route on any align-bored 1.9 case, or with non-std. crank, or the thrust has been cut down, then contact fusername as he has Boston Bob's stash of custom wbx bearings.

There is a lot of confusion in N. America about post-'85 1.9 engines because they weren't sold here, but they are common in Europe and especially England (there are also a lot of them with OEM carburetors there <gasp!> ). They were nonetheless built in "B" cases using the late-style main bearings, they just have the 69mm 1.9 crank. So in US parlance they are 1.9's built in 2.1 cases.

2.1 "B" cases have a new style of bearing (some say Chevy-style, never having been into a Chevy I wouldn't know). #1,2 and 3 are plain steel-backed bearings, #2 is split, and they locate with tabs that fit into recesses cut out of the saddles along the case parting line, a lot like cam bearings do. The exception is the #4 main bearing which is still the same T1 bearing and locates with a dowel.

#2 center main is Type1 journal diameter, not Type4.

In the 2.1 cases, thrust is controlled by two special tabbed thrust shims on either side of the full-circle #1 bearing shell (one interior, one exterior), plus a 3-shim pack behind the flywheel to set endplay like the other VW boxers, but the shim closest to the case is wider. There is an odd square-hole shim also added that keeps the wider shim held against the case so it retains the tabbed shim after the mainseal has been driven in. As far as I can tell the square-hole shim was just a factory assembly aid, it can definitely be omitted, and I think a regular shim can also be substituted for the wide shim.

The regular endplay shims are the same as used in Type4's. Both cases use the same flywheel seal as a Type4. There is a smaller-diameter lip seal on the pulley end.

Both cases can use the same camshaft, cam gear, cam bearings, cam plug, and oil pump as Type1's. Both wbx's used late dished 4-rivet cam gears and long-reach pump, but just like any Type1 an early 3-rivet flat cam and gear can be used along with a short-reach pump, so the whole selection of aftermarket cams is available. But lifters are the same small-face ones as Type4 (std. or hydro), so cam grinds that require a wide-face (mushroom) lifter can't be used unless the case is bushed for the Type1 style or you can get some of the Type4-body wide-face lifters.

The 2.1 case interior is considerably more voluminous than the 1.9, so it is the easier choice for stroker engines. The stock 76mm 2.1 wbx crank will fit in the 1.9 case but even then with stock rods it requires very slight clearancing, although generally not with aftermarket rods. The 2.1 case will admit strokes up to 82mm with little to no need for clearancing, depending on rod and cam selection.

I think that about covers it.

[fastback]

great summary!

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

Thank you Mr. Tencent.
That was a great breakdown.

[fusername]

wow thanks. I will never use all that info, but I always wonder. I suspected that was the point of that funny looking washer, but now i have someone to back me up.

I guess if you are going to make a comprensive list maybe you should mention the difference in torques on later style cases, and how to ID them? I don't have a manual for these engines so I can't tell you the difference, I have to look it up every time.

[fastback]

the ones i have been working that uses late style 3 piece bearing ,has the "B" suffix after the case partnumber.
located on the sump

025 XXX XXXB

the ones without has the one piece "type1" design.

[tencentlife]

I guess if you are going to make a comprensive list maybe you should mention the difference in torques on later style cases, and how to ID them? I don't have a manual for these engines so I can't tell you the difference, I have to look it up every time.

Hadn't occurred to me, but you should have the book at hand at any rate. I built lots of them and the relevant page is always open on the bench nearby to keep me honest.

the ones i have been working that uses late style 3 piece bearing ,has the "B" suffix after the case partnumber.
located on the sump

025 XXX XXXB

the ones without has the one piece "type1" design.

True for the most part, but I think the earliest iteration of the "B" case in the US in '85 was still bored for the early bearing style. The top stud, just behind the bellhousing, went from an M8 to an M10, which also changed the way the intake plenum mounts. I'm not positive about this without looking at one of these cases but I may have one around I can check out to confirm, so I will do that and post it here. But for sure, excepting that variant, the B cases were built for the late bearing style.

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

Bentley Manual I'm assuming?

[fusername]

oh well I don't really build wassers, so it's a non issue. I am an AC guy all the way, I just pop in here from time to time to drool over the oxys and big HP motors. one day, when I'm rich and famous...

[tencentlife]

I am an AC guy all the way

Well then I guess you just don't know what you're missing.

[fusername]

oh yes I do, when my front beam whent on my 77 bay I bought a 87 vanagon, I still wake up with the sweats. the PO actually calls me asking if I want to buy it back I'm back to an all AC fleet, and no longer have to help keep a fleet of 5 vanagons running.

/hyjack of a great thread