T4 stock cooling--Crank trigger/CNP or COP using Megasquirt

[miniman82]

Because CIS addicts swear they need it, but they really don't.

[Piledriver]

why sequential rather then batch?

Short: I want to play with it, and it only adds slightly to the cost, could cost less for some installs.
I mainly want the ability to tweak A/F mix on individual cylinders, and perhaps timing.

NBD on the current motor, but the next time I do this (hopefully this fall) it will be on the 2466, which is likely to have a pair of iron lungs, so I want to get this down pat.

I also get a kick of taking a ten year old Megasquirt v1.01 board and using it with the latest bleeding edge features.

Some "commercial" EFI vendors don't seem to want to support last years models sometimes...
...or force you to spend major $$$ to basically fix their bugs via a mandatory upgrade to get something working like it should have in the first place...

[Passatman]

why sequential rather then batch?

Some "commercial" EFI vendors don't seem to want to support last years models sometimes...
...or force you to spend major $$$ to basically fix their bugs via a mandatory upgrade to get something working like it should have in the first place...

Agree with you pile on the above comment. I was talking to a friend last week on the features of megasquirt and he was against buying one. My friend was for the microtech ECU, but with a visit to that site proved to me that i made the right decission to buy the mega squirt. Microtech wants 1095 dollars for the cheapest ECU and 200 to 250 dollars for a software upgrade, also they say they don't run the coils from the ecu anymore you have to buy another box to run ignition.

[raygreenwood]

Because CIS addicts swear they need it, but they really don't.

Need is such a subjective term......its always a want with me. If you can tune to make proper use of sequential.....it makes a difference.

I'm hoping to have my engine together with sequential in early fall (waiting for adelayed tax return....uncle Sam and I have been arguing ). I'll be able to go from sequential back to paired in under 10 minutes. When it gets to that stage I'll document the tuning differences and benefits/diffrences in running. Ray

[Passatman]

Update:
Have all the mods done to the board to go sequential, have everything built, but I elected to go with a MS III box rather than an external second box to make room for the 3 extra boards and wiring/connectors.

I'm waiting on the larger MS III case and misc parts from Glens Garage.

Will be adding another DB25 for all external I/O going to the Extra daughterboard and a cannon plug for the high current separate power/injector and ignition outs.
(and perhaps the high current outs from the -Extra board)

EGT TC will have its own TC connector on the case.

Pile i am also thinking of going to MS3. I have a MS2 that i bought in june, after looking at the MS3 i want to upgrade to one as soon as i get my MS2 with extra code running.

How much is it for the MS# case and processor assuming that you will only need these items to make the switch.

[Piledriver]

The MSIII case is $2 more than the std MS case, so ~$32.
Mind: I'm just using a MSIII case for the extra room, I made new endplates, I still have a MS2 w/the 1.01 mainboard.

For the MSIII mainboard, hit DIY or Glensgarage, they'd have upgrade info.

Other than the onboard datalogging, I can't see much if any advantage of MS3 vs. MS2 on a 4 cylinder.
(I am eyeing an IOX/JAWOEM+integrated microsquirt for the next build, see thread on the jbperf forums)

RonW has MSIII on his 912 tho and seems to like it.

[Passatman]

People have said that the MS3 is a lot smoother and it has a faster processor. I am wondering if direct injection would be the next evolution for MS3. If this becomes possible that's what i would do next with my aircooled engines.

[drmiller101]

i would think direct injection is entirely possible with ms3 today. direct injection is not very critical on timing - as long as it is on the intake or compression stroke, you can squirt fuel whenever you want.

i don't know if you could do diesel with ms3, but I bet you could make it work pretty well.

[Turbinepowered]

i would think direct injection is entirely possible with ms3 today. direct injection is not very critical on timing - as long as it is on the intake or compression stroke, you can squirt fuel whenever you want.

i don't know if you could do diesel with ms3, but I bet you could make it work pretty well.

If MS3 can drive diesel injectors, I know several people who will want to try to build a Common Rail IDI for their old Mk1s...

[Piledriver]

Update---

Went with a MS3 box AND the original box, it didn't quite all fit, and there were good reasons to split out the "power" stuff.

... built an external box using the original MS case with the quad coil and injector drivers in it to keep all the "high power" bits separate from the logic/sensors as much as possible.

The mainboard and an error* daughter board live in an MS3 case.

Only ground/logic level signals go to the driver box, and then through a shielded cable.

The "driver" harness is totally separated from the "sensor" harness... and will be routed differently.

Was able to use a proper AMP connector for the high power outputs, and used a DB15 (not HD15, full size) for the logic...

Added another DB37 for the second connector on the MS3 case so there is 1 male and one female, no way to plug in wrong.
I have a nice DAQstuff plug in extender for the second connector with screw terminals for testing.
The injector logic level signals and all the triggers and -extra functions I'm using are on that second DB37.

...Probably just about the most complex way possible.

Should have the fuel plumbing redone this morning or tomorrow so I can pressure test it (dead head a -957 CIS pump--~160 PSI.. )

Hey--- That won't bork the injectors will it? (not running, just static 130-160 PSI depending on pump and voltage)

[73AZ]

Hi Piledriver,

For a VR sensor for what you want to do, you might look here:

http://www.aitekinstruments.com/pdf/cat08_sensors.pdf

P/N 70085-8080-001

There is a lot of great info on just exactly how the sensors work
in that link! Thank you for posting that, klatin.

[Piledriver]

Tiny update--- Pressure tested the system, found a pinhole in the old fuel filter where galvanic corrosion got it under the clamp.
(Needed a new one anyway) OReillys (WIX) ~$15 in stock.
(for many CIS cars, it's the smaller size metal filter, I have a modified 86 Fox CIS-E sump/pump setup attached behind the front beam of the T3)
This T3 had a CIS system installed in it with the 1600DP/factory EFI manifolds.... Ran great until crazy ex GF of grandson put something in the tank.
Decided to replace all the lines as the 3 -4 year old "OEM" EFI line was falling apart.

Time to install 2 cables as soon as I have some time off and start tuning.

[Piledriver]

Belated update and some bad news (just happened, like an hour ago)

Wiring is in the car in flex conduit, tested. Dry fired coils and injectors briefly w/stim as input the other day.

Had the triggering more or less adjusted//working while cranking made some noid lights last night to absolutely verify injector/coil firing order before first light off, decided to try some 10Uf non polarized electrolytics to the vr inputs.. (I have already broken in the cam with Webers and the Piles old Vanagon ignition)

Got home, installed the caps into the -extra vr sensor + input wires, was final testing MS2 box (driver box is installed in car)... on the bench before plugging it back in the car...(triggering didn't work as well with the 10Uf caps, so much for reading the forums)

Was working normally... then It started acting weird... lost sync/comms, fidle came on (not normal--disabled) for no apparent reason... Had 3.3v/12v on the jimstim. nothing shorted/loose... 5V/12V OK on the ms2... Nothing hot ... OUCH.. Frak... the CPU is hot.$#@Z#&$*$&$!

The CPU bit it, which was weird as absolutely everything has been working flawlessly, humisealed board, wiring connections secured on bottom of board with epoxy etc... Nice mechanical setup, opened like a book.

(Can the CPU chip be replaced? I have the gear at work to do fine pitch rework)

Soooo... after spending 30 min doing a post mortem, and since I have no freaking idea what I did or what caused it, and I'm not about to plug in another $80 CPU to smoke test it, I'm stripping down and redoing it as a MS1/COP setup. (fortunately all the pulled MS1 config components are bagged)
Was hoping to fire it up and get it idling well this morning after work--Will take a pic before stripping.

I can still use the external injector/coil driver box/harnesses... IIRC MS1 can still do 6/1 dual trigger(COP), so once I deprogram myself from how MS2 outputs are wired I'll get my head around the MS1 setup and (maybe) get it running this weekend anyway.

Frak, must sleep now.

[Chip Birks]

That really sucks! Do you have any idea why it torched? Was the MS2 old? The smell of burning electronics is never a good one to have to experience. Good luck getting it back up and working again. I have a spare MS2...I'll make you a deal if you want it...

[Passatman]

Pile did you post anything on MS website. I am in the middle of doing my relay board and will be posting here and over by MS website.