Internal mods for direct coil control

[roachdogg28]

DIY support told me the same thing. Now i have one concern. The 5v pullup was not enough to carry the signal through the circuit to read anything in tunerstudio. The 12V was the only way i could get a trigger signal through the ecu. With that said, the VR sensor only puts out around 1 volt, then how will my ecu ever see it?

I dropped my VR gap from .030 down to .015, with no change. Maybe i need a new/different sensor?

If the 12V pullup just increases the signal strength on the stim, why can't i use a 12V pullup in my VR circuit?

[Piledriver]

DIY support told me the same thing. Now i have one concern. The 5v pullup was not enough to carry the signal through the circuit to read anything in tunerstudio. The 12V was the only way i could get a trigger signal through the ecu. With that said, the VR sensor only puts out around 1 volt, then how will my ecu ever see it?

I dropped my VR gap from .030 down to .015, with no change. Maybe i need a new/different sensor?

If the 12V pullup just increases the signal strength on the stim, why can't i use a 12V pullup in my VR circuit?

The VR is an alternator of sorts, the signal it puts out is what it is.
Strangely, pulling it up WILL probably have some effect of the detector circuit, (i found that out by accident) but it's REALLY not the "fix" you are looking for.

I get ~8-10v RMS (~average, not peak) cranking out of the Generic Ford PU sensor I paid $12 for at the FLAPS, and I only have 6 small holes in a giant iron plate (flywheel) to provide signal, so I suspect your sensor is borked.

[roachdogg28]

I hope its the sensor, i have a new one comin next week, so hopefully that will fix it.

[Piledriver]

.. If you are using a std Ford sensor, ~any auto parts store should have a selection in stock...Cheap

The VR "simulator" on the Jimstim works, but I found it's a real "test" to see sometimes...a real VR sensor output works a lot better (at least with the LM1815 chips)

... Although you should be able to "see" a Volt or two. it should be higher, esp with a 36-1 wheel and a std Ford sensor.

On the LM1815s (the only VR setups I have personally played with) several things can be changed in the circuit to change the response..
The std MS3 circuit certainly has similar tweaks documented if it comes to that, even if it's just changing the input voltage divider a bit.

(This entire thread reminds me to only use Hall sensors in future builds for many reasons...)

[Munchhausen]

(This entire thread reminds me to only use Hall sensors in future builds for many reasons...)

x2

[roachdogg28]

So i decided to pull the vr sensor for a little bench testing. The AC voltage test proved unhelpful, cuz it seems my crappy dvm doesnt like AC volts. But i did the resistance test, and it took me awhile to get any continuity at all. I found if i pushed the probes on the pins just right i got a blip of 120-170 ohms for only a split second, which im sure can't be right. Im thinking the vr sensor died during the changeover from edis to DCC. I must have dropped it or something. Idk. My new sensor is about 4 days out, so when i get it i will try the same tests to see if i get better results.

[Dale M.]

The VR sensor is nothing more than a small cylindrical magnet with a coil of wire around it.... Resistance readings should be "solid" and a "constant" value....

Just found this and it may be of interest....

http://www.sensorso.com/home/type.php

And the subject of sensors goes back to here....

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/pickups.htm

Dale

[MarioVelotta]

I did this little test back in April to check the wave form at slower than cranking speeds. My gap is pretty large also because my jig had a little wobble

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NckdIgGs2bU

[Piledriver]

neat

Just a minor clarification on the Hall sensor portion of that Megamanual page---
the Hall sensors used for crank triggers generally have a built in magnet as well, so they don't require "flying magnets" on the wheel, just teeth. Or holes...
The teeth vs sensor size issue still matters somewhat, but if you don't have a ton of runout and have square teeth it's generally consistent.

They look/fit much like a VR sensor (with 3 wires) and detect/switch on a change in the magnetic field.
They work at zero speed (you can turn the crank by hand and see them work) and they are low impedance, which generally makes it much easier to make a noise-immune crank pickup.

For a VERY high RPM motor, VR has (arguable) accuracy advantages, but there are Hall sensors available that are good past 19K.

[roachdogg28]

OMG no surprise, but i put in the new sensor and nothing changed, and it bench tested exactly the same. Im sure its cuz i have a shotty multimeter. While putting in the new sensor i noticed my connector might be shot, but to rule that out i need to invest in a decent DVM. Im going to do that soon, and hopefully its the connector, cuz if not there's nothing else and i will light the car on fire and watch it burn.

[MarioVelotta]

I'll take a look at your ECU if you feel like sending up to me. Offer is on the table.

[roachdogg28]

After testing with the jimstim im thinking its not an internal problem with the MS, but something between the vr and the ecu. Let me try to fix this connector/wiring issue, and if that doesn't work, i may take you up on that Mario.

[supaninja]

If it's the wiring or the connector that is easy to check, just ohm out the wires to the contacts on the plug, but your going to need a working multimeter first

[Dale M.]

I might consider if it were mine checking and redoing all the solder joints on connectors and circuit board associated with VR circuit.... One bad solder connection on 37 pin connector (either the male of female) may make differences... Because it worked with stim and not with VR it indicates to me its either a connector, circuit board (at connector) or external wiring to VR ....

Many a time I have gone through and reheated and flowed the solder on components and solved some real elusive problems.... Recovered a $200 VOLT-OHM meter (pre-digital) that was tossed in trash because a tech was to dumb to look for cold solder joint on circuit board where "Ohms Adjust" potentiometer was mounted....

Dale

[roachdogg28]

So after runnin to the junkyard for a new connector, i got home, put it in only to crap my pants cuz i now have rpms and tooth and trigger logs!!!! I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!! Unfortunately im still not getting a spark out. Can i test these wires for some kind of voltage from the ms ecu? I have two outputs, spark A and B. Spark A is normal ign out, and spark B is out through a IAC output. Im not getting any sort of spark, no sputter at all.

So here is a couple of my logs, first is tooth, second is trigger. I need someone with experienced eyes to tell me if these look ok, maybe let me know if i need to adjust the pots, but they started with the top one at 6 turns and bottom one fully CCW. I still have yet to solder the connections just before my db37, cuz i want to make sure i don't have the wires backwards as im running low on my shielded wire now.