Starter fo 2.2 Subaru in '73 Superbeetle ?????

[essjayarr]

For those of you running Subaru 2.2 and up in your bugs. What are you using for a starter?
Stock VW or High Torque VW?
My car with 2.2 Subaru starts fine when cold, but very hard starting when at operating temp..
It has a new (remanufactured) stock starter for the year. My Vanagons 1988 and 1986 with Subaru 2.2 never had any issues at all with the Vanagon starter.
I'm tempted to buy a high torque starter, but want to be sure.

[fezzic181]

If it's turning over while everything is tight and the oil is thick then it isn't your starter that needs fixing. Ignition or fueling problem while the ecu is performing a hot start.

[essjayarr]

By hard starting, I mean hard cranking. The engine won't turn over. Seems like a heat soak problem with the starter.
Do you have a Subaru in your bug? What starter are you using?

[Buggin_74]

If it's turning over while everything is tight and the oil is thick then it isn't your starter that needs fixing.

Trust me, it's the starter.

I had the exact same problem with my old EJ22 and so did a mate in his EJ22 powered bus.

They start perfectly normal when cold but as the engine heats up and all the tolerances change its too much for a stock type1 starter to handle (or a tired bus one in my mates case)

I fitted a new German Bosch SR18X 83-87 Vanagon Automatic starter to my bug and it started beautifully hot or cold after that.
Never had any problems untill I build my new high compression EJ25, it was too much for a VW starter and most of the aftermarket high torque starters are garbage,

Ended up fitting the stock Subaru EJ22 starter with a cranky kit, been fine for a few years now.
They are a reduction drive one so spin over a high compression EJ25 no worries.

[turboedbug]

My stock vw starter works just fine

[Buggin_74]

They usually do with turbo motors because of the lower compression.

[Piledriver]

If the bug starter fits, spend 5 minutes with a rattail or chainsaw file on an automatic Jetta VR6//TDI starter, 9 tooth.
(one of the bolt holes to the trans is offset a little)

2KW Gear reduction type. Spins motor at ~300 RPM. Even a TDi w/16:1 CR. at -10F.
(There's a thread on this IIRC in the off-road forum)

I have one, had it in for several months now. Me likes. A lot.

[essjayarr]

If the bug starter fits, spend 5 minutes with a rattail or chainsaw file on an automatic Jetta VR6//TDI starter, 9 tooth.
(one of the bolt holes to the trans is offset a little)

2KW Gear reduction type. Spins motor at ~300 RPM. Even a TDi w/16:1 CR. at -10F.
(There's a thread on this IIRC in the off-road forum)

I have one, had it in for several months now. Me likes. A lot.

Sounds like I shouldn't waste my money on an aftermarket high torque, gear reduction starter?
I'll look into the Jetta VR6/TDI option....sounds best for long term solution.
Thanks alot guys!!

[essjayarr]

If it's turning over while everything is tight and the oil is thick then it isn't your starter that needs fixing.

Trust me, it's the starter.

I had the exact same problem with my old EJ22 and so did a mate in his EJ22 powered bus.

They start perfectly normal when cold but as the engine heats up and all the tolerances change its too much for a stock type1 starter to handle (or a tired bus one in my mates case)

I fitted a new German Bosch SR18X 83-87 Vanagon Automatic starter to my bug and it started beautifully hot or cold after that.
Never had any problems untill I build my new high compression EJ25, it was too much for a VW starter and most of the aftermarket high torque starters are garbage,

Ended up fitting the stock Subaru EJ22 starter with a cranky kit, been fine for a few years now.
They are a reduction drive one so spin over a high compression EJ25 no worries.

Hoe direct of a fit is the Vanagon starter with this set up?

[Piledriver]

The Vanagon automatic starter actually should not work on a T1 transmission.
T4 powered bus and 914 have much different bell housing starter offsets.

It does work for some definitions of work, I have used one breifly, but it may have long term issues.
(it has 10mm+ more extension, so it may bind)

The VR6 automatic starter is a huge win... Worth buying a core and swapping for a rebuilt.

[Buggin_74]

The Vanagon automatic starter actually should not work on a T1 transmission.

Says who?
They do and work well, I ran mine for years.
THey are identical to the semi-auto beetle starter just have slight different position bolt holes
THe beetle one is SR17X






Installed in My beetle:

[Piledriver]

They are identical except for >10mm more "reach" which may or may not bottom out on the ring gear, depending on your flywheel.
As I said, I have used one in a pinch.

Conversely, the T1/T3 automatic won't work on a late bus or 914 as the extension is too short, and if it does, you are barely catching the ring gear.

[Buggin_74]

Well that's a strange one because I've had it on 2 gearboxes with 4 different flywheels and no problems with any of them
It was cranking over the EJ25 fine when cold, just struggled when it was up to temp but no surprises there.

None of the flywheels showed any signs of only partial engagement and I took this pic when I removed it to fit the EJ Subaru starter motor, no obvious signs of it over reaching and hitting the bellhousing either.
And no my ring gear teeth arent missing, it's just an optical illusion.

I might bore an inspection hole in one of my old gearboxes so I can see what its doing.

I'm not doubting what you're saying, just pointing out I had one that seemed to work perfectly fine and was sold to me as fitting a bug from a VW speciallist with over 40 years expereince who had fitted heaps doing 6v to 12v conversions

[Piledriver]

I was surprised to see that it worked as well after making the measurements, but there is some overlap.

But:The VR6 automatic unit has 2X the cranking power vs. the Vanagon unit and the T1 pinion depth and costs ~ same, depending on where you shop.

The usual aftermarket "hi-torque" starters do not even come close at 2X the price, and 1/100th the reliability.

[Buggin_74]

I wouldn't even entertain the idea of an aftermarket hi-torque starter, pure junk.

We are lucky a company here in Aus makes adapter kits to fit Subaru EJ starter motors into VWs
THey are reduction drive high torque too but luckily well made Japanese Nippon-Denso quality and available everywhere cheaply.

Hopefully the VR6 ones are the same as what we got here in Aus
Pretty rare to find a VR6 here let alone an Auto but its handy to know.