GDI for A/C VW

[Piledriver]

Gotta love Delphi, as helpful as always ...

While hogging out the 1.7 head as a jig to make the twinplug jig, my one remaining functional neuron fired as to the GDi injector location on a T4 head, and will work peachy with certain interesting pistons Aircooled.net sells... Will still be twinplug, the second plug will be one short bounce off the exhaust valve for stratified charge. (this is the "easy" top dual plug location right next to the stock plug, the new second plug location is on the bottom of the chamber)
Might very well all work with flattops too.

There is IMHO no upside to blindly copying what they do on 4v heads, the exhaust valve pocket is the perfect combustion space on a 2v GDi head.
(They put the pocket on 4 valve heads and bias the chamber volume under the ex valves for the same reason, thank you, Larry Widmer)

I suspect the GDi injector bases/inserts will be "water" cooled with a wittle bitty water cooler system, on an after run timer. It could also be a simple, compact phase change system, like AC, only with water or something with a similar boiling point, with a much lower freeze point. May get away with a simple pump on the liquid side.

I need to figure out the fuel pump now, the roller cam TFSI pumps are cheap, ~reliable, and prolific due to being common and reliable... and may come with a free vacuum pump.

[Passatman]

From which engine will you be using the GDI pump again.

[Piledriver]

From which engine will you be using the GDI pump again.

Possibly the 2009-2012(+) tfsi, the pumps have a roller lifter for the cam, it also seems to be a stand alone assy with an integral vacuum pump, tang drive via a coupler driven off the end of the std cams. Newer versions likely same//similar.
It still needs a cam lobe...

A complete stand alone assy with integral pump cam as shown before would be far less work, but haven't found a gdi pump like that yet.

The fuel pump is proving to be the hard part...

The Mazda GDi injector driver box is waiting for pickup at my post office already, must have shipped previous day plaid via wormhole.

Some of the 1st gen Mitsubishi gdi pumps appear to be stand alone tang driven bits (sorta bolts on to an existing engine design), so stand alone operation possible.
Have yet to find a good detailed picture.

This is the late TFSI pump assy:

[Passatman]

Which engine is this pump off again.

[Piledriver]

Which engine is this pump off again.

2009 TFSI (A4/Mk6 etc), IIRC the designation is "888" or such, I'm sure even the new ones are similar as VW tends to leave stuff alone once it works.

OTOH they also tend to ignore things unless it costs them money.

That's the WHOLE pump assy, with a vacuum pump on the front.
The "pump" is actually only the bit bolted on the left, you can see the lifter that operates it from the cam.
The vacuum pump is driven by that offset tang rig.

Cheap as chips, but still not a "complete" solution. Yet.
I'm still trying to find pics/info on ~2000 era Mitsubishi units.

[Passatman]

Ok. Which engine will you try to convert first.

[Piledriver]

Depends on the pump solution.

Ideally 2.2 w/1700 heads, the Cabby 1.8 with the TFSI heads/pump etc. is sorta cheating, but is an ~ideal way to work out the EMS side.

TFSI motors are a bit too dear, complete, and I don't have any watercooled "connections" to score one cheap, although the heads etc can be had reasonably from time to time.

I HAVE T4 bits to play with.

If I cannot come up with a sane solution for the pump drive for aircooled I will have to do the Cabby with the TFSI head/pump etc.

[miniman82]

Mount it to a stand with the vacuum pump facing the shroud, fed with oil from the idiot switch port and drained back to the FP pad. The mounting stand could be designed quite easily to have a stand alone drive shaft, and you could use a mini cogged belt to drive it via the crank.

[Piledriver]

That would be The plan, but if an existing stand alone unit can be found (even if it needs an oil feed) it would be preferred.
I'm kinda partial to keeping it all out of sight using a HD oil pump drive tang setup.

...but I'm pretty sure it does not have to be sync'd to cam, that's just a matter of convenience.
Driving it off the fan belt provides a pretty reliable tossed fan belt warning, although the instant shutdown wouldn't provide time to get off the freeway etc.

The whole appeal of the TFSI engine or head is primarily that it comes with the fuel pump, injector placement/chamber design/cam profiles etc as a solved engineering problem.
(the TFSI piston is basically a flattop with a shallow dish and small valve reliefs, the 1.8 GTI piston lacks the dish, would have to check valve<>piston clearance)

[Piledriver]

Is the complete Delphi ecotec pump bolt on as a unit, and have its own integral cam?
(do they just show the pump head?)

Here's the pump GM uses on the Ecotec in EUROPE on Vauxhalls/Opels...to date:
Its a tiny 3 piston wobble plate design, like a wittle bitty AC pump, at least possibly variable displacement.
The Continental version is desired, The Siemens version looks same but has a bad rep.

Stand alone, nice hex drive, probably plugs into a cam, but ~anything would work:

vauxhaul-vectra-zafira-wabbleGDIpump.JPG

vauxhaul-vectra-zafira-wabbleGDIpump-2.JPG

[socrace]

...but I'm pretty sure it does not have to be sync'd to cam

At least with the Bosch/Delphi designs I've seen, the pressure regulator is pulse width controlled, yes, but the pulse frequency and phase is sync'd to pump rotation by sensing cam position.

[Piledriver]

Any idea of any (reliable) pumps in use that do not require synchronous spill valve operation?
(effectively makes the pump variable displacement, neat trick)

http://delphi.com/pdf/techpapers/2013-01-0253.pdf

I'm pretty sure the 3 piston axial one (made by Continental or Siemens for the European Ecotecs) has a separate spill valve, and would be difficult to synchronize 3 holes on a 4 banger at cam speed, so perhaps they did not try?
I suspect that's actually a Delphi design.

I'm even considering alternate types of pump, as the OEMs do not seem to have totally mastered pumping gasoline, reliably, at 200 bar... Particularly (and surprisingly) Bosch. When VW starts using Delphi injection parts, Bosch has issues.

I'm also totally not a fan of single ended fuel systems, and would be delighted if I could regulated fuel bleed back to the tank with the feeder return so it can cool off and visit a filter again, over and over...

The Porsche 997.2 pumps seem cheap, common and ~OK, but may require the synchronous spill valve control electronics.
I suppose I could always just use an adjustable external bleed relief valve and stop worrying about it.

[Piledriver]

Standyne made a 3 piston GDi pump for Mercedes 3.5l V6s back in the 2005-2008 timeframe, integrated pump wit hits own cam looks like a winner, and they indicate their pumps can be set up for use with E85.

Cannot find a part# for that or find any used...

They also make custom pumps for aftermarket, but as they are a tier 1 OEM supplier I doubt I have that sort of cash.

The euro-only Ecotec Continental wobble plate units with the separate pwm regulator look best so far.

[Piledriver]

Another bit of the puzzle has shipped, Porsche 997.2 pump.
Wobble plate pump, internally lubed.
Will be modding the cam for a wider tang and making a new oil pump drive shaft and cover to suit.
A under-the-trans exhaust will provide clearance.

[Stripped66]

Very cool!