Hardware suggestion for 1776 FI conversion

[Jprather]

Hello Forum,

I have been a member for a couple of years now and have read lots of posts. Thank you to all that contribute. I am obsessed with this Baja that I stated to build for my daughter. She has lost interest and I can't stop reading and dreaming about what I can do.

I have decided to try and convert my 1776 over to FI using a MegaSquirt 3 ECM and a German plenum from a 75-79 bug. After that add electronic ignition and then a turbo.

I am hoping this approach will allow me to better understand how it all fits together and gives me time to get the money to do it.

Is the German plenum a good choice for this setup?

I have noticed that the plenum is made up of a couple of assemblies bolted together. Will the turbo be a issue for this plenum?

Lastly, is there a better choice for what I am trying to do?

Thanks in advance for the help and advice.

[Marc]

Since it's a baja, you would have the option of running Type III cooling and air runners. Downside is that it's longer so the departure angle suffers, but it'd stand out from the ubiquitous upright motors - and non-VW folk would think it was some exotic engine

Personally I wouldn't use 90.5s for a turbo (they're only slightly thicker than 87s, after all, and prone to splitting at the top under boost/detonation unless you fit them with "power sleeves"). I'd go with thickwall 88s instead. The <6% smaller displacement could be more than compensated for with a couple more pounds of boost. For a low-pressure setup, the AA thickwall 92s would stand up better than 90.5 or 94s.

[Chip Birks]

I have 94s that have taken over 24psi just fine. Boost is not what splits cylinders, detonation does. Make sure your tune is good, use use the ms3 afr safety feature and you should be fine. Just don't get greedy with boost right off the bat. 90.5s will be just fine.

The german plenum works pretty good as far as i've seen, although almost everyone on here that started with german ended up hand fabbing something new within a couple of years. I have used the mexican style. It would probably be perfect for your mild 1776.

[Jprather]

I never thought about a type 3 setup. It does sound interesting. I have a ton on money invested in this thing so far and wanted to ease into the FI turbo arena. Spending the extra funds to change out the cooling system is out of the question right now. My wife is starting to ask questions

I have wondered about doing a twin turbo but couldn't visualize it with the upright. This type 3 thing changes everything. Wow a whole new thing to obsess on.

I will have to ask the guy that built my engine what size cylinders he used. It never occurred to me that they would split. Adding the turbo is the last step so I have time before I need to address the cylinder size.

Right now I am trying to figure out the intake hardware and throttle body. I don't have equipment to fab up my own hardware and will need to get something retail. Can anyone suggest a source for the Mexican throttle body? I live in the Los Angeles area and can drive to Mexico if that helps.

Are there any other options for a first time FI setup?

[Chip Birks]

It depends on how complete you want the setup to be. Mario on here is the man when it comes to kits and harnesses. But there are also raw components listed for sale on this site in the classified section. Mexican intake is the best when it comes to completeness.

[Jprather]

I looked at Mario's stuff and it looks great. I was thinking that if I did it myself I would have a better understanding of how it all fits together. I am also hAving trouble justifying the cost. I thought I could save a few bucks if I did it myself. I wanted to build my MS3 myself and put it all together.

I found a dealer at thesamba, Antonio Trejo, and he has a FI set for $299. Sounds pretty reasonable.

By the time I get all the wiring and hardware it would probably be cheaper to get the kit from Mario.

[Clonebug]

I used the German plenum and the only thing I didn't like was the stiff linkage and the poor breather setup. Otherwise it worked great.



I have now built my own intake using the German TB but it was done to make room for an intercooler for the most part..........it didn't really help much though.



For a Baja you want to find a turbo on the smaller side to get boost in the lower rpms to give you the low and mid range torque. You don't want to have to rev it to the moon to get power all the time.

If you can't do your own fabbing it will be a lesson in futility trying to get a turbo setup going because you will be throwing money everywhere to get some small thing built just to find out it wasn't what you wanted.

All you need to build stuff is a good drill press...a small mig welder and some decent hand tools.
I have been going to swap meets for over ten years now and I always find something I didn't know I needed......
I got my drill press there and a lot of tools and parts. Most of my turbos are bought at the swap meet because I can check the play on them to see if they are any good.....and then low ball the owner so much it makes a grown man cry.........

Get a couple 4 inch grinders with a cutoff wheel and a grinding disc so you don't have to switch out wheels all the time.

You can read through my build to see the home boy way I build my intakes and exhaust setups. I am not a Master Builder by any means but it does work and if you don't need a fancy polished intake and ceramic exhaust it will work.
Here is my homemade tubing notcher.......hey it works....I use it all the time and it has worked on every cut I needed.



Just make sure you have ground clearance on your turbo and exhaust system so you don't bottom out and damage something.

All of my ECU parts have come from Mario....I bought the MS-1 used from him and he builds the harness.
I had him build the Relay board and get me all the wires with pigtails and I just put them in place and then cover them with harness covering and shape them.
There is something to be said in using his wiring because it is pretty well trouble free.
A rats nest will be nothing but misery. Every wire has it's place and there is no reason not to run them permanently the first time.

I crimp, solder and heat shrink every connection and have never had an issue with my harness other than a wire hooked up backward a couple times.

I work on my buggy every winter doing an upgrade or improvement and if you don't enjoy that kind of thing you might want to think it over.
Turbo is an addiction and you will need to be able to fix and build your own stuff.
It's a great way to learn and I love it......finding time to do it is the problem.

[Jprather]

Clone bug,

Your thread is what hooked me in the first place. I read every page as you went through the carb phase into the FI phase. Your work is impressive.

I have been obsessed with air cooled VWs for 25+ years. I am also pretty good with computers and the MS option has me in its grips. I have dumped a lot of money with VW shops trying to get things to where I want them and wasted a lot of money.

At this point I want to take my time and do the work myself. I have already had to pay twice for the same work and am done with that route.

My first step is the FI part. Once I get it going and feel confident I know how to tune it I can begin thinking about dabbing up something more elaborate. Keeping a turbo charger in mind as the final phase, what would you recommend for the intake to start with?

[Clonebug]

German stuff is available.

I have two or three of the plenums......although they are simple to install they do take a fair amount of room.

It's pretty simple to build your own intake and find a Volvo TB that will work. I had a Volvo TB but I figured I would never need it so I sold it to TurboBaja......

My build has the details and it just takes a little work. It takes longer to design and figure out what fits than the actual build.
Making everything fit in it's own place and easy to assemble is the hardest part.

What happens is you end up having to assemble the engine in a certain order with regards to the wiring, intake ends, shroud, coil, intake, alternator stand and throttle body or else you have to pull it back down to get something installed.....

I have gotten very intimate with my buggy build and can do just about everything with my eyes closed now. I have pulled it apart and put it back together so many times I can't even count.......

[Jprather]

Since it's a baja, you would have the option of running Type III cooling and air runners. Downside is that it's longer so the departure angle suffers, but it'd stand out from the ubiquitous upright motors - and non-VW folk would think it was some exotic engine

Personally I wouldn't use 90.5s for a turbo (they're only slightly thicker than 87s, after all, and prone to splitting at the top under boost/detonation unless you fit them with "power sleeves"). I'd go with thickwall 88s instead. The <6% smaller displacement could be more than compensated for with a couple more pounds of boost. For a low-pressure setup, the AA thickwall 92s would stand up better than 90.5 or 94s.

Marc,

Since you mentioned this I can't stop thinking about doing it. How difficult is it to change over to a type 3 setup?

[Marc]

If you do much serious off-roading it may not be a good idea, but for a "street" baja where mud and departure angle aren't a big deal it does look kinda neat IMO. No real advantage (other than not relying upon a belt to have cooling) so only you can judge whether it's worth the effort for cosmetic effect. And potentially, with no ductwork to supply cool air to the fan inlet, there could be overheating issues in stop-and-go traffic on a hot day due to spent air being recirculated - but most bajas with upright fan setups have the same liability.
The cases are basically the same. Type IIIs use a combined dipstick/oil filler tube that enters the RR corner of the sump, and Type I cases lack the hole & studs for it. Possible to add, but personally I'd just go with a flexible dipstick to allow keeping the Type I tube and allow its use in the tight space between the case & fan housing. The Type III breather box isn't intended to be used for adding oil, but you have no space restriction above the engine so you have other choices there. Space is very tight for the oil pressure sender; Type III cases don't have the boss drilled/tapped for it, instead they locate the sender in a bung added to the cooler, which is otherwise essentially the same as a doghouse Type I cooler.
A complete Type III core will donate all the pieces needed - most likely not a cooler you'd want to use, though...pre`70 coolers have small oil passages, too. The fan housing incorporates the saddle for the generator, and pre`67 have smaller-diameter 6V generators. You can use a Type I generator on a Type III (having the Type III pulley makes belt adjustment easier) but another option is to adapt a small alternator from a forklift: http://www.aircoolednut.com/erkson/ttt/ ... en2alt.htm
Type III cooling fans are known for coming loose at the hub so you may need to dig through a few cores to find a good'un - red-orange rust trails emanating from the center will be visible on a "bad" one.
If the donor engine's from a `69 or newer it'll have a "moustache bar" that bolts to three additional bosses in the case; if your case has those bosses it can be used to good effect as a rear engine hanger.
One big downside is that space is quite tight to run a proper full-flow fllter setup off the pump cover (especially with the moustache bar) but it can be done. Or you could cheat and take the oil out via one of those adapters that goes into the rear pressure valve bore (more vulnerable and tends to slow oil temp warmup).
There's not a great selection in off-the-shelf exhaust systems made to fit with the Type III fan housing, so you might end up lengthening the primary pipes on a Type I system.

[Jprather]

Thanks Marc. It sounds like it shouldn't be too difficult to do. I have a VW boneyard here and will do some shopping.

I just started my FI conversion and will be wrapped up with that for who knows how long. My first soldering project will be the JimStim. It should be here this next week. I am so ready to throw out these carbs.