71 standard, wrong ignition switch?

[heliarc]

This is difficult for me to explain and I'm about this close(that little pinching motion with your fingers)to dynamiting my Beetle... Not really but it's damn frustrating. I just bought a new ignition switch for my 71 from a local shop.

My first issue was that the wiring was different. Six wires on the new switch, and in different locations on the base compared to the old switch.

The old switch has a brown with blue stripe in the center. The new one has a fat red one in the center. I plugged it in one wire at a time and everything works, no smoke or flames. Seems all good so far.

Next was the rotating lug on my lock that engages the switch. For the most part it's round with two protrusions on the top and bottom. I figured no problem, rotary tool and got it to fit fine.

One side of the new switch, where the lock slides in, it was flat so I hogged it out just a bit.

After all of that though the real problem became apparent. To get the lock to slot into the switch, the switch has to be in the RUN position and the lock has to be in the OFF position. Possibly vice versa, but there's no way this lock will work with this switch.

I know there's no way I'll get a refund for this switch anymore. The people at the shop are knowledgeable but they were stumped over this. Was the switch made wrong, or intentionally this way so I have to buy a new lock as well? Did someone swap in the lock and switch from a Type 2 or Type 3? This is really bending my head. After five years I finally get this thing on the road and now a stupid switch is holding up the show...

I have to edit pics to 800X800 pixels and I will post them...

[Marc]

`71 is a one-year-only switch for a Beetle/Super/'Ghia (although the same part was used through `74 in Baywindows) - first year of the "X" terminal which serves the headlamps and some accessory loads on some models. Your switch seems electrically correct, the physical discrepancies are the only issue? Are you sure that the headlights are working? Who made it? ....'cuz that would be a bogus part.

It sounds like you're describing the physical differences between the `68-`70 switch and the `71 one. You can't rely on the color coding of the wires for positive identification since that can be inconsistent between manufacturers (for example, the "X" wire may be black/yellow stripe or red/black stripe and the dummy-buzzer ("SU") wire may be grey, blue, etc.) but you can't interchange the `68-`70 part with the `71 without also changing the lock portion or massaging the part like you've been doing AND making changes to the headlight switch and fusepanel wiring. The function of the "X" terminal could also be approximated by using a relay, that way the other wiring/headlight switch can remain unchanged. The only difference is that the headlight portion of the light switch and the "X" accessories, if any, would be receiving power when cranking, too.

Correct P/N for the `71 switch is 111 905 865F (311 905 865A is the `68-`70)

Perhaps at one time someone changed the steering column or the lock assembly and you're dealing with a morphodite combination - do a wire-by wire comparison of your car to these schematics, it should be all one way or the other.

`71: http://www.vintagebus.com/wiring/1302_U ... r_1970.jpg

`70: http://www.vintagebus.com/wiring/Type_1 ... t_1969.jpg

`71 Super with freshair fan: http://www.vintagebus.com/wiring/1302_f ... _items.jpg

[heliarc]

I have it wired and everything works as far as I can tell. I just haven't checked the brake lights. I have a horn, wipers, hi/low beam, running lamps front and rear, turn indicators, power to the coil, and I can crank it. As for who made it, someone in China... And someone was definitely into the wiring off of the switch. It was all clipped and taped. At least they soldered it back together but there's something fishy going on. It's a Chinese part, but the people I got it from have been into air coolers and pretty much nothing else and making good money for over thirty years. I'll check out those schematics, and I thank you very muchly!

This is the lock in the OFF position looking at the part that goes into the switch


This is the new switch in the OFF position. They aren't clocked the same. I had to remove a bit from the side to make it rounded on both sides to match the lock.


Wiring on the new switch. It seems like this would be ok. It's different, but seems to work.


Wiring on the old switch.

[Marc]

Hmmm, the plot thickens. Both switches have the "X" wire (black w/yellow stripe) so they both should be the "1971" which makes it sound as though the new part is defective (manufactured with `68-`70 style body so it won't fit correctly in your housing)...or maybe yours is a very early `71 and there was some transition period and it's the old switch that's weird. I've never heard of this specific issue, but it wouldn't surprise me. If that were the case, a switch like your new one is the only thing that's going to be available and to make it work correctly you'll have to find a matching mechanical portion.

Back home I've got all these parts laying around - when we rewired my `69 we used a `71 switch - but going just on memory I can't be of any more help to you. Perhaps someone else has access to a correct switch and lock cylinder set that can be used for reference. I'm still stuck four hours from home attending to my brother's estate, don't have the tools with me to pull mine apart to look at it.

[heliarc]

I got back with my parts supplier. She's ordered me a lock that will fit the switch. Hopefully it fits the housing! I grabbed a few more pics just to possibly get some answers and hopefully this can be of help to someone else running into this issue. I appreciate your advice and time on this. Somebody, somewhere, did something. I wish I could have a word with them...

The entire assembly


The lock removed from the housing.


The new switch slots right into the housing and the set screw even lines up. I am cautiously optimistic.

[heliarc]

An update. I have an engine lathe and I thank God for it all the time! My lock wasn't fitting in the housing. I had to shave about .150" off of the front face. After that, the spring catch still wouldn't stick so I extended the notch with a rotary burr. Worked out alright.

Coming off the switch, I still have a black and yellow wire, and a brown wire that I have no idea where they go. All my lights are working, hi/low beams, wipers, starter, generator, spark, etc... I've looked at so many schematics and nothing seems to jive with one vehicle. So since I'm not popping fuses and nothing is getting hot I'm going to go ahead and run it.

[Marc]

The black wire with a yellow stripe is for the auxiliary "X" terminal which debuted for the `71 model year (I've mentioned this numerous times by now, including describing what it does). If your headlamps are working without it being hooked up, your car either has a `68-`70 style headlight switch or someone's altered the wiring to the `71 switch. Prior to `71, all lights were supplied power from Term 30 (hot all the time); `71-up lighting switches have a separate input (X) for the headlamp portion of the switch (the parking/taillamps are still powered from 30).

That black/yellow wire is hot anytime the ignition switch is in the "on" position, so be sure to insulate the unconnected end.
Does your car still have the "dummy buzzer" which sounds when the driver's door is opened with the key still in the ignition? That could be what the mystery brown wire is for.

[heliarc]

Sorry if I missed you mentioning that Marc. This is still twisting my brain. My car doesn't have a buzzer at least anymore.

I thought I had it solved, but now it's doing a thing where it starts up but as soon as you let off the key it dies unless you quickly turn the key back just a bit. I'm not sure if I might be feeding the ignition off the auxiliary position on the switch or something. The black/yellow wire is definitely not long enough to reach to the headlamp switch. I hate bodging but I was thinking of making an extension, hooking it to the headlight switch in the place of the red wire and see what happens.

***Not sure if I want to try that if I have the wrong headlight switch. I can run the car as is if I have to. Meantime I'll work on finding the proper switch. There's a '73 laying in a local junkyard. Think that would do or should I make sure and order a new one?

[Marc]

Any `71-up Standard Beetle lighting switch should have the "X" term feed for the headlamp portion and fit your car.

Have another look at the `71 wiring diagram I linked to above - the black/yellow wire from the ignition switch goes to an inline connector where it feeds the red/black wire going to the "X" term on the light switch. If your headlights are working now, you either have a `71-up light switch and someone's rigged it to receive term 30 power, or it's using a `68-`70 light switch which only needs one input.

This is why I recommended that you do a wire-by-wire comparison of your car to the two most likely applicable schematics - that should resolve the mysteries.

[heliarc]

Any `71-up Standard Beetle lighting switch should have the "X" term feed for the headlamp portion and fit your car.

Have another look at the `71 wiring diagram I linked to above - the black/yellow wire from the ignition switch goes to an inline connector where it feeds the red/black wire going to the "X" term on the light switch. If your headlights are working now, you either have a `71-up light switch and someone's rigged it to receive term 30 power, or it's using a `68-`70 light switch which only needs one input.

This is why I recommended that you do a wire-by-wire comparison of your car to the two most likely applicable schematics - that should resolve the mysteries.

That's the best idea of course to go wire by wire. I might have to bring a garage into it at this point though. I can do nuts and bolts all day but trying to figure out even the simplest of wiring does my head in. Would the X perhaps be marked on the switch? If it's there I'll know it's been rigged. If it isn't there I'll just get a proper 71 switch...I think, does that sound right? So far it was the wrong switch, lock, and housing though and that seems to point to the wrong switch as well.

[Marc]

Would the X perhaps be marked on the switch?...

Yes (unless it's some kinda counterfeit part, anyway).
`71-up switch:


`71-up switch with wires attached - note the single, lighter-gauge red term 30 wire (all it handles is the park/taillamp current):


`68-`70 switch (311 905 865A) - note the triple term 30's, power from the back went to the light switch first on these:


...the term 57's are for the front parking lamps in early-style headlight assemblies; later-production switches may have them omitted. They're "hot" at the first click but switch off when the knob's pulled fully out.

[heliarc]

Ok, that gives me something to go on. Looks like somehow the switch pictured has the black/yellow going direct to the X terminal on the switch. Is that one located differently? Anyhow, the heavy red wire coming off of my ignition switch is going to the 30 terminal on the headlight switch. This is a big help though, thanks for your patience! I will investigate and post what I find. Thanks Marc, you rock!

[heliarc]

Ok, sorry the pic is a bit blurry. It's late but I had to go out and just have a quick look. Someone has been up to something. This switch does have the X terminal. The non factory style connector is currently hooked to it. Also strange is the tiny little terminal, 58b I think, with an improper connector. I'm still not sure what's going on but is it safe to hook my black/yellow to the X terminal and give it a shot? Also, will this possibly fix my issue?

[heliarc]

Sorry, forgot to link the pic when I first replied...

[Marc]

I don't recall when they went to the narrower lug for term 58b (dash illum lights). Ideally you'd change the female connector to match, but if the wide one fits snugly it'll function OK.

Sometimes the "X" wire from the inline junction between the ignition switch and the headlamp switch is black/yellow, sometimes its red/black (fortunately the latter is rare, since its easy to confuse with the starter solenoid term 50 wire).

Looks like they rigged it to provide on-all-the-time power to the X terminal. If you lose that non-stock wire and feed "X" with the black/yellow wire from the ignition switch it'll make it so the key must be on for the headlights to work...but it won't help the "clocking" problem you're having at the ignition switch contacts.