Budget street legal rail (re)build (WARNING: pic heavy)

[Marc]

...No, NEARLY ALWAYS due to the brakes not being adjusted properly...

Even when religiously adjusted there's always more wear on one shoe than the other (in the case of the rears, it's the forward one) because the rotation of the drum makes it "self-energizing". Unlike "Bendix" brakes which use a harder primary material for one lining and a softer secondary for the other, VWs use the same "Pri/Sec" stuff on all shoes. Bus front brakes use two wheel cylinders so that both shoes act as primaries (when rolling forward...in Reverse, the drum rotation tends to counteract the W/C action).

I would say that incorrect radius match between the linings and the drums is at least as big a cause as inattention to adjustment, since a shoe with too small of an arc tends to be pulled ahead by the rotation of the drum...with no fixed pivot point the shoes are free to slide up and down - and they do - resulting in more rapid wear at one end. The angled-slot adjusters adopted in `65 help some, but it's still a problem.
Unfortunately arc'ing machines are rarely found these days (OSHA asbestos-phobic regs made it more trouble to use one than it was worth for most shops) so unless you're working with unturned, original-diameter drums odds are that there's a radius issue contributing to the wear. If you hold a shoe up against the drum firmly and press one end into contact, and the other end lifts away by more than ~1mm, it'd be worth your while to find someone who can arc the linings (like a specialty shop that relines brake shoes in-house). It may seem counterintuitive that grinding off some of the linings will make them last longer, but it's a proven fact.

[dustymojave]

"with no fixed pivot point the shoes are free to slide up and down - and they do - resulting in more rapid wear at one end."

But VW drum brakes DO NOT HAVE self-energizing shoes. And They DO have a fixed point. The bottom end of the shoes fit to the adjusters which fit into a block welded to the backing plate. They DO NOT float. Yes...the shoes ARE the same material. More rapid wear at one end of the shoe is a result of too many miles between adjustments.

I REALLY do NOT see substantial difference in wear of my brake shoes in any of my VWs and VW-based buggies. I've worked on other people's cars that show uneven wear and find that many mechanics who learned on cars with Bendix brakes do not adjust both shoes on a VW. I've found many times one shoe worn out and the other shoe only worn at the wheel cylinder end. Only one way that can happen.

[Marc]

The pivot point is NOT fixed, the end of the shoe frame is free to slide in the slots of the wheel cylinder and the adjuster. This is the cause of the effect that I referred to, which I have observed on many, many customer vehicles (even those which came in every three months for maintenance, including brake adjustment).

One common cause of uneven wear from misadjustment is when someone tightens the e-brake cables without adjusting the service brakes first. To assure a proper adjustment when you don't know the service history best practice is to back the cables off, adjust the stars, and then readjust the cables. Failure to do so can cause the forward shoe to wear out 2-3 times as fast as the rear one.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

When adjusting the brakes on a VW: I tighten up the adjusters so that each brake shoe is locked tight against the drum then I repeat the process locking up the other three corners. Then I bleed the brakes followed by loosening up on the adjusters until each shoe on the corner is barely dragging on the drum. Repeat for each remaining corner.

Once done then I convert to disc brakes :^).

Since I don't run parking brakes in the sand I had forgotten that both shoes lock up (as has been said. If I knew that before I had forgotten it. My apology!).

[GoMopar440]

Thanks for the replies! I'm going to be using a lot of pieces of the upper portion of the T3 tunnel in sections. The new shifter mount box will get welded to the existing box. As suggested I'll put the top of it 3" above the bottom box. The T3 tunnel also puts the shifter offset to the drivers side, but I will most likely narrow it so the new upper box is the same width as the one below it. As far as the heater levers go, I'll be replacing them with new ones of my own design. They will be about the same length as the E-brake handle for leverage, and yes, I will be hooking them up like the old school styled setups were done.

For the heat, I don't plan on using the regular VW setup that is run off of the exhaust manifolds. I'd like to use a VW gasoline fueled heater system up front where the battery box is now. From there I'll route the heat to the cab and to a defrost vent. The heat controls will be relocated elsewhere, most likely on the vertical part of the forward tunnel kick up, just below the gauges.

Once I have the shifter and the trans in place I'll be able to measure the length that the shaft will need to be cut to. The shift shaft out of the T3 is in very good shape, so I'll add a weld on adjustable end to it to allow me to hook it up to the shift coupler.

I'm pretty tired right now so I'll just post the pics from today with a caption above each pic describing what the pic is about. If you see something you have a question about, post it up and I'll go into more detail on it.

Tunnel pieces cut up:


New shifter box profiled and clamped into approximate position:


Pic showing how much wider the new box is than the old box:


Shifter alignment will be closer to driver, which is what I wanted:


Everything roughly mocked up to get an idea of shifter and E-brake handle positions:


This is the top of the fuel filter I plan on running on the rail. I milled the outer area flat around the two threaded ports so I can get a good surface to be able to mount it. The bracket will be regular sheet metal formed into a squared off "U" shape that will bolt to the rear firewall.


This view shows about how much room I now have to fit the bracket with a thick rubber grommet between the body and the hex on the fitting.


I'm drawing up a design for the tunnel in MS Paint and I'll post it up as soon as I finish it. The drawing will give a better idea of how I want to make the tunnel fit the rail and the seats.

[Marc]

...Once done then I convert to disc brakes :^)...

Much as I respect properly set-up drum brakes, I must acknowledge that the 4-wheel discs on my daily driver have eliminated that chore

[GoMopar440]

I had to run to town today so I stopped by a tiny JY while I was there. I was able to find a couple of rear wiper assemblies from some mid 90's Jeep Grand Cherokees. I'll probably use the one with the silver arm on it. It looks to be made of stainless since the paint is long gone and there isn't any rust on the arm. I got both of them for $20, which is about half of one of the cheapest new ones on Ebay go for. One of them is a 5 wire and the other is a 6 wire. I'll have to do a little research to figure out which one will work best for my application. If I can only fit one on the front windshield, I may use the other one on the rear window I plan to add.


The wife wanted to stop by Goodwill while were close by so I went in with her. I was taking a quick glance at the book section when an old book title caught my eye. It was a small hardback titled "King of the Dragsters (The story of Don Garlits)" written by Don Garlits and Brock Yates. When I opened the front cover to look for the price, I just about choked. On the inside of the front cover was what looks like Don Garlits autograph. I bought it for $1.99, but if the autograph is real, I wonder how much this book is actually worth? What do you guys think? Is it legit or not? I'll be hunting around on the interweebs tonight to do a little research to see if I can find some examples of his autograph to see if this one looks like a match.




Ok, I'll get back onto the rail project again now. After I got back home I started measuring where I wanted the pieces and parts for the tunnel. I'll be taking those measurements and putting them into a rough drawing. I'll probably have to modify it as I go, but it will be good enough to get me in the ball park. Here's the pics with more notes above them.

Here's the basic tunnel layout with the seats, E-brake and shifter in place. The aluminum yardstick in front of the shifter is showing where the front vertical part will go.


The yellow ruler shows where the rear vertical part of the tunnel will go. The battery cut off switch and fuel shut off valve will be recessed in here with a cover to protect them. The switch and the valve will be completely isolated from each other with separate compartments on the back of that panel. The idea is that there shouldn't be any chance of fuel leaking onto the battery switch, even if the rail is upside down.


This pic shows that the angle of the forward part of the tunnel will match the angle of the steering wheel.


The most obvious issue I ran into with this mock up is the passenger seat doesn't want to fit with the 4" wide shift box I have clamped to the 3" wide box below it. I expected that and already had planned to cut and reweld the new box to get it down to 3" wide. I might make it 2.5" so I can keep the tunnel top the same width all along the top of the center piece.


The holes and cracks you see in the FG buckets will be getting patched up and reinforced before I reinstall them. They seem a little too thin in some areas for my liking and I'd like them to last a while longer. The mounts for them will also be getting remade so they are the same on both sides. I don't plan on adding seat sliders since I'll probably be the only person driving this rail. That should also help me keep the seat height down. Headroom wasn't an issue for me before, so I don't want to add any height to the seat base. I will be sliding the seat base forward about 2" to give the seat back a little more layback angle to it. The head rest will stay in the same place as it originally was.


EDIT:

O.
M.
G.


Check this Ebay listing out that I just found! Mine is identical to this one except for the "To so-and-so" above Don's autograph. Mine is also a 1967 first edition, and is in the same overall condition as the one on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUTOGRAPHED-1ST ... 4af599ffec

Now I just have to decide if I want to keep it, or sell it and put that money into the rail. If I can sell my book for what this guy is asking for his, I'll just about be able to afford to get the other carb I need to finish the dual carb setup. :-k

[Ol'fogasaurus]

One of the few things I do not like about bucket seats is the passenger side bucket seats have seat adjusters! My wife always slides the seat forward or bends forward just at the wrong moment and blocks my view of the side mirrors or my view to the side.

I've had some OMG close calls with the pass seat forward. For what it is worth.

The other thing I'd like to comment on is the seat mounting holes in the seat rim where your legs will probably ride. Most of the seat bolt holes are in the bottom which puts you bottom at risk hence the seat pad under the seat cover. I am sure you will figure a fix for thisnso just a heads up on this.

Lee

[GoMopar440]

I plan on repairing all the holes and a few cracks in the seat before reinstalling them. I may also add another layer or two of FG mat to make them a bit thicker overall. The FG on these seats feels just a bit too thin for my tastes.

And I definitely agree with you on the pass seat getting in the way of the mirror. The obstructed view while trying to look out for traffic on that side has caused me a few close calls over the years. It won't be an issue in this rail with a passenger seat that can't tilt or slide forward. There won't be any mirrors in the sun visors either, so a certain unnamed someone won't be leaning forward all the time to check their makeup either.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I plan on repairing all the holes and a few cracks in the seat before reinstalling them. I may also add another layer or two of FG mat to make them a bit thicker overall. The FG on these seats feels just a bit too thin for my tastes. . .

The Poly seats are not much better but a bit so; softer if that is possible . The configured shape feels a bit different and after sitting in and riding in both while not fully happy with them; the Poly seat didn't flex as much as the FG unit did. A good idea to not only fix them but stiffen them up at the same time.

The newer suspension seats are another matter; I have ridden in Clonebug's glass buggy a couple of times during his power show and I felt the upgrade would be worth the expense. Maybe on the next rail that you are planning. Just haven't gotten around to it yet on my buggy.

Lee

Edit: I got thinking about the rides in glass seats and I remembered the funny feeling that I got when the seat back flexed to the rear; as the seat back flexed to the rear the seat sides came in closer to the body. Not sure if it was planned that way or not but it wasn't a one time ride that gave me that feeling.

I did have a short ride in a vehicle (it might have been a buggy but it was so long ago) that had the seat back either pushed back so far it hit one of the cross-tubes or had the seat back braced (again... too long ago)but with the back not allowed to flex it was murder on the back; I do remember the feeling even now. Even a small amount of flexing has to be there or it is just like getting pounded on the back continuously for the whole ride.

[GoMopar440]

These seats don't seem to be like the standard ones I see currently available in stores today. That along with the discrepancies I feel compared to what most people say about the way most FG seats feel, leads me to believe I have either an old style, or just a lesser know/not as popular type of seat.

The biggest, and possibly the only, gripe I have with these particular seats is that the seat back angle feels like it's angled too far forward for me to sit in them comfortably. Moving the seat bases forward while keeping the seat backs in the same relative place should help fix that.

The added memory foam in the seat bases does work very well as far as keeping the seats feeling plush. I've ridden in vehicles with those plastic seats before, and these particular FG seats are definitely superior to the plastic units. Compared to my truck, these padded FG seats feel at least comparable to, if not a little better than, my '94 Mazda B4000 (Ranger) truck seats. Another thing to remember is that I don't plan on going crazy off-road with this rail. It will be a street legal vehicle and will spend most of it's time on the paved streets. I will see some dirt roads occasionally, but that will not be at a race pace.

For the repair and reinforcement of the seats, I'd like to take a page from the FG buggy builders book and add some stiffeners the the underside of the seats. Sort of like what Mr. Meyers did with the electrical conduit to run the wires front to rear under his FG bodies. Doing that should give me a lot of extra strength around the perimeter of the seat.

I've ridden in these particular FG seats for about 30 minutes at most on some local dirt roads and never felt like the seat bases were too stiff or lacked padding and support. The seat back angle was my only complaint that I could recognize at that time. Longer rides, once I get this rail up and running again, may change that opinion. But the seat back angle issue is being addressed with the new seat bases I'll be making for it. I'll have to try these seats out again after these changes to get a new baseline for how they feel after the change.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

There were two types of seat in the past that I remember. One was a laydown type of which there is a Prowler rail with what looks like a set in it for sale locally. When I was looking for a buggy in the early 90s I looked at and drove a rail with seats like that. Very good on the back I guess but looking straight ahead was not good, at least for me.

When I did a quick look at your seat I remembered that there was also a seat they referred to as a bucket seat. The sides came upna bit higher around where you bend with the idea of giving one more side support. Could be ....

Lee

There was another style of seat that was designed to be tilted back a bit to where your back felt good and you seat and legs felt comfortable. It wasn't that easy but when you hit that sweet spot for you it was wonderful!!!!

[GoMopar440]

There was another style of seat that was designed to be tilted back a bit to where your back felt good and you seat and legs felt comfortable. It wasn't that easy but when you hit that sweet spot for you it was wonderful!!!!

Maybe I got lucky? Sure feels like these seats could fit that description once I get the lean back angle sorted out. These seats have a noticeable lumbar bulge in the lower seat back area, similar to modern racing seat designs. The waist area is fairly tall as well to help keep you solidly planted in the seat during cornering.

[Marc]

...Check this Ebay listing out that I just found! Mine is identical to this one except for the "To so-and-so" above Don's autograph. Mine is also a 1967 first edition, and is in the same overall condition as the one on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUTOGRAPHED-1ST ... 4af599ffec
Now I just have to decide if I want to keep it, or sell it and put that money into the rail. If I can sell my book for what this guy is asking for his, I'll just about be able to afford to get the other carb I need to finish the dual carb setup.[/color] :-k

Looks pretty certain that the autograph's authentic, but without provenance it's only worth what someone's willing to pay for it. Notice that the one on eBay has an asking price of $224 but no bites yet. I couldn't find any examples of Garlits' signature with the trailing t-cross, but IMO that just makes it look more authentic, as one would expect if he was doing it hurriedly to get through a stack of book-signings...a counterfeiter probably would've tried to make it look more like his "regular" signature http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAxMVgxNjAw/ ... 880000500F Even so, I don't think it's worth anywhere near $224 except maybe to a diehard fan needing it to complete his collection. http://www.memofx.com/racing-17/don-garlits-65377/

[GoMopar440]

I agree with you on the topic of provenance and assumed value. The lack of provenance is not going to let that book (or mine) sell for anywhere near that price unless a DG memorabilia collector spots it and just has to have it. One thing that supports both of these books as being legit is the fact that there are now at least two known ones out there that match perfectly. Both the Ebay sellers book and mine have matching signatures, matching signature layout and placement on the same pages and both books are in separate hands. If I had to guess, I'd say that both books were possibly signed at a book signing event on the same day given how closely everything matches on them. I suppose it's possible that a forger could have done both books, but I doubt it. A forger most likely wouldn't have knowledge of DG's entire alphabetical writing patterns, just the letters and style of his name. That would make the "To so-and-so" part very unlikely to be able to be replicated IMHO.

There's also the fact that Big Daddy is still alive and well participating in drag racing of a sort. As recently as 2014 he's been working on setting another world drag racing record by being the first man to break the 200MPH barrier in a battery powered dragster. In this video he's made it up to 184MPH so far. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvzBkan4j1w The other video I saw of that attempt, shown from the perspective of the starting line, was of him making a good pass and then having a parachute failure at the end of the track. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1DQ-tLdogE If he keeps that up he's going to make these signed books a whole lot more valuable/collectible in short order.