Bus spanks a done up mustang!!
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CLKWRK
- Posts: 307
- Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 1:01 am
Bus spanks a done up mustang!!
This bus belongs to a friend of mine here in toronto and its a very fast machine! see for your self....... http://www.needforspeed.ca/Night-Scene-part1-VIDS.asp
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Brutus
- Posts: 186
- Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 12:01 am
Bus spanks a done up mustang!!
Since no one else seems to want to bite, I will. What are the Busses details? Tranny, Engine, ect.
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CLKWRK
- Posts: 307
- Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 1:01 am
Bus spanks a done up mustang!!
This bus was built by a guy who "thinks outside of the box", definately different.
the specs are here.......... http://www.needforspeed.ca/stevefeature.asp
the specs are here.......... http://www.needforspeed.ca/stevefeature.asp
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Pillow
- Posts: 2940
- Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2001 1:01 am
Bus spanks a done up mustang!!
I can believe this bus is fast but 170MPH is hard to believe. With a stock R&P in a 915 tranny that would be like 8K RPMs! Too high considering redline is about 7200RPM for the 2.7L... Now maybe if it had the 930 4 speed it possibly could do it?... Actually I do not think the early 930s could do 170MPH anyway.
Not knocking the bus because it is definitely interesting!
Wish I had that kind of time and money to throw in to my bus
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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia - "Biscuit"
'79 Porsche 911 SC - "Cochise"
Not knocking the bus because it is definitely interesting!
Wish I had that kind of time and money to throw in to my bus
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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia - "Biscuit"
'79 Porsche 911 SC - "Cochise"
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Brutus
- Posts: 186
- Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 12:01 am
Bus spanks a done up mustang!!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pillow:
I can believe this bus is fast but 170MPH is hard to believe. With a stock R&P in a 915 tranny that would be like 8K RPMs! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I call shinanigans. Someone please do the math on this one. 170mph with a buss's frontal area, that's gotta require what, 750-1000hp? Figure a Porsche Turbo with 450hp, half the frontal area and a better Coefficient of drag, will reach what? 180-190 give or take a road test or two.
I know there's a program out there that calculates top speeds for different cars with diff. hps. Anyone got it? Anyone know where I left my areodynamics book?
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'69 Baja, '76 Baja, '67 Half Baja, '68 Bus, missing my '59 Double door
I can believe this bus is fast but 170MPH is hard to believe. With a stock R&P in a 915 tranny that would be like 8K RPMs! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I call shinanigans. Someone please do the math on this one. 170mph with a buss's frontal area, that's gotta require what, 750-1000hp? Figure a Porsche Turbo with 450hp, half the frontal area and a better Coefficient of drag, will reach what? 180-190 give or take a road test or two.
I know there's a program out there that calculates top speeds for different cars with diff. hps. Anyone got it? Anyone know where I left my areodynamics book?
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'69 Baja, '76 Baja, '67 Half Baja, '68 Bus, missing my '59 Double door
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CLKWRK
- Posts: 307
- Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 1:01 am
Bus spanks a done up mustang!!
8k rpms is definately attainable with a done up 911 RSR engine.
I wasnt present to when those speeds were hit, but i can say i holds its own against v8s and ricers ..Bry
I wasnt present to when those speeds were hit, but i can say i holds its own against v8s and ricers ..Bry
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Pillow
- Posts: 2940
- Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2001 1:01 am
Bus spanks a done up mustang!!
Can a 911 engine hit 8 grand? Yes, the bottom end is good for it but you are really pushing the envelope. The trouble is the top end where valve float becomes a major issue, the top end is good for abotu 7000RPM in stock trim, but the redline is normally in the low 6000s because the cams have no power up in the high revs.
Unfortunately the specs were kind of short and it is hard to tell what exactly this engine is made of. RSR gets thrown around A LOT and is mostly BS (watch Gar-Bay). From what I gathered the dude took a base 2.7L case and bottom end and put on RSR spec P&Cs from J&E, not hard to do. The big questions come with what heads and cam he is running. The true RSR dizzy is like $5000 IF you can find one because it is a 12 post system because of the dual plugs on the heads. Later 3.6L engines in the C2/C4 had two distributors to deal with the dual plugs 2heads. Again cams are huge when it comes to performance and who knows what is in there, all I know is that lift cannot be too high since the CR is high already because there would be some valve on piston love taps.
My prediction is that with a turbo bolted onto a high CR RSR spec pistons will not live long.
Quick this bus may be but fast I find hard to believe.
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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia - "Biscuit"
'79 Porsche 911 SC - "Cochise"
Unfortunately the specs were kind of short and it is hard to tell what exactly this engine is made of. RSR gets thrown around A LOT and is mostly BS (watch Gar-Bay). From what I gathered the dude took a base 2.7L case and bottom end and put on RSR spec P&Cs from J&E, not hard to do. The big questions come with what heads and cam he is running. The true RSR dizzy is like $5000 IF you can find one because it is a 12 post system because of the dual plugs on the heads. Later 3.6L engines in the C2/C4 had two distributors to deal with the dual plugs 2heads. Again cams are huge when it comes to performance and who knows what is in there, all I know is that lift cannot be too high since the CR is high already because there would be some valve on piston love taps.
My prediction is that with a turbo bolted onto a high CR RSR spec pistons will not live long.
Quick this bus may be but fast I find hard to believe.
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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia - "Biscuit"
'79 Porsche 911 SC - "Cochise"
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SteveBus
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 12:01 am
Bus spanks a done up mustang!!
Hi all, The bus in question here is mine and it seems like there have been a few questions left unanswered. You wanted details, so here we go....
For starters i chose the 2.8 litre case with the large stud spacing which allows for a 92mm bore liner. I chose to run JE's instead of the Mahle pistons as the quality is much better. To clarify things, a simple 2.7 engine has 90mm liners and the RSR uses a 92mm bore. Furthermore the 2.7 uses a small combustion chamber head opposed to the RSR which has a much larger chamber. The 2.7L engine has 44mm inlet valves and I run the proper 49mm valves. The installed spring pressure on a 2.7 is 60lbs, the RSR is 90lbs, Mine were set 150lbs installed when the motor was fresh and this takes care of the "valve floating problem" which isn't really an issue as most stock valve trains are safe to 7500RPM reliably.
The camshafts are RSR camshafts installed to factory specs (timing). The pistons have generous valve reliefs to ensure there are no "love taps", also the large chamber heads leave more room for the large valves. I spent over 80 hours on the flowbench optimizing my ports and intake manifolds.
What is not RSR due to availability and budget are the intake manifolds and injection pump. So what i did was tear down two good 2.4S injection pumps and used best parts to build the pump i use. The problem I faced was that the fuel mapping was all wrong for my setup. The fuel maps on these type of injection pumps are very difficult to modify as they are ground into a three dimensional cam lobe. Specific fuel is determined based on throttle position(the angle of the lobe). vs. engine rpm (centrifugal wheights with a varible retaining spring that change the lateral position of the lobe). I had to modify this cam by building it up with weld and grinding the desired fuel map onto it. As you can imagine, this took many hours of work and alot of calculation and recalculation.
The turbo was fabricated at a local turbo shop that i found which was run by a very intelligent and very old german man with a passion for turbos. The turbo consists of a mix of Garret and Holsett parts rotating on ball bearings. Secondly since space on the bus is not an issue, i was able to install a full tractor trailer intercooler under the frame rails of the chassis. This definatley ensures a cool air charge. As this is a mechanical injection setup, a mechanical device had to be fabricated to provide varible enrichment where the enrichment percent would vary with changes in both boost and rpm.
Since this engine has reasonable compression, I had to have a way to retard timing under boost. This was accomplished by simple modified vaccum selinoid. With a proper Hemi engine, horsepower isn't affected greatly by low timing advance as in a conventional wedge style engine.
Basically with lots of boost and carefull fuel mapping and timing, I have an RSR turbo motor in drag racing trim not road racing trim. The difference being that my motor cannot sustain full throttle for extended periods of time. The peak torque of my engine is reached at 7800 RPM and the peak HP is much higher because of a very broad power band.
I hope this clears things up a little and yes I have been called crazy, liar, insane, whacked, and more by more than a few people but all things said and done..... Yes the engine is too much for the bus to handle but it makes for one hell of a thrill ride!!!!!
For starters i chose the 2.8 litre case with the large stud spacing which allows for a 92mm bore liner. I chose to run JE's instead of the Mahle pistons as the quality is much better. To clarify things, a simple 2.7 engine has 90mm liners and the RSR uses a 92mm bore. Furthermore the 2.7 uses a small combustion chamber head opposed to the RSR which has a much larger chamber. The 2.7L engine has 44mm inlet valves and I run the proper 49mm valves. The installed spring pressure on a 2.7 is 60lbs, the RSR is 90lbs, Mine were set 150lbs installed when the motor was fresh and this takes care of the "valve floating problem" which isn't really an issue as most stock valve trains are safe to 7500RPM reliably.
The camshafts are RSR camshafts installed to factory specs (timing). The pistons have generous valve reliefs to ensure there are no "love taps", also the large chamber heads leave more room for the large valves. I spent over 80 hours on the flowbench optimizing my ports and intake manifolds.
What is not RSR due to availability and budget are the intake manifolds and injection pump. So what i did was tear down two good 2.4S injection pumps and used best parts to build the pump i use. The problem I faced was that the fuel mapping was all wrong for my setup. The fuel maps on these type of injection pumps are very difficult to modify as they are ground into a three dimensional cam lobe. Specific fuel is determined based on throttle position(the angle of the lobe). vs. engine rpm (centrifugal wheights with a varible retaining spring that change the lateral position of the lobe). I had to modify this cam by building it up with weld and grinding the desired fuel map onto it. As you can imagine, this took many hours of work and alot of calculation and recalculation.
The turbo was fabricated at a local turbo shop that i found which was run by a very intelligent and very old german man with a passion for turbos. The turbo consists of a mix of Garret and Holsett parts rotating on ball bearings. Secondly since space on the bus is not an issue, i was able to install a full tractor trailer intercooler under the frame rails of the chassis. This definatley ensures a cool air charge. As this is a mechanical injection setup, a mechanical device had to be fabricated to provide varible enrichment where the enrichment percent would vary with changes in both boost and rpm.
Since this engine has reasonable compression, I had to have a way to retard timing under boost. This was accomplished by simple modified vaccum selinoid. With a proper Hemi engine, horsepower isn't affected greatly by low timing advance as in a conventional wedge style engine.
Basically with lots of boost and carefull fuel mapping and timing, I have an RSR turbo motor in drag racing trim not road racing trim. The difference being that my motor cannot sustain full throttle for extended periods of time. The peak torque of my engine is reached at 7800 RPM and the peak HP is much higher because of a very broad power band.
I hope this clears things up a little and yes I have been called crazy, liar, insane, whacked, and more by more than a few people but all things said and done..... Yes the engine is too much for the bus to handle but it makes for one hell of a thrill ride!!!!!
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panel
- Posts: 4229
- Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2000 12:01 am
Bus spanks a done up mustang!!
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SteveBus:
Hi all, The bus in question here is mine and it seems like there have been a few questions left unanswered. You wanted details, so here we go....
That bus is sweet! Why would people call you a liar? I think they are jealous. Whats next for the bus? Keep us bus dudes up to date.
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Turbo powered split window bus http://www.geocities.com/panelvan65/panel1
Hi all, The bus in question here is mine and it seems like there have been a few questions left unanswered. You wanted details, so here we go....
That bus is sweet! Why would people call you a liar? I think they are jealous. Whats next for the bus? Keep us bus dudes up to date.
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Turbo powered split window bus http://www.geocities.com/panelvan65/panel1
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SteveBus
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2002 12:01 am
Bus spanks a done up mustang!!
Turbo splitty? Kewl!!!!!
Unfortunately your page isn't displaying the pics. I just picked up a 55 split, and I'm considering doing the full job on it so lemme see those pics cause i would hate to be called a copy-cat.
In the works and almost done is a Twin Turbo 3.6, Dual plug, Electromotive injected full race spec engine complete with pauter rods and 53X46 valves. This beast might find it's way into an upcoming project....
Unfortunately your page isn't displaying the pics. I just picked up a 55 split, and I'm considering doing the full job on it so lemme see those pics cause i would hate to be called a copy-cat.
In the works and almost done is a Twin Turbo 3.6, Dual plug, Electromotive injected full race spec engine complete with pauter rods and 53X46 valves. This beast might find it's way into an upcoming project....
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Brutus
- Posts: 186
- Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 12:01 am
Bus spanks a done up mustang!!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by panel:
That bus is sweet! Why would people call you a liar? I think they are jealous. Whats next for the bus? Keep us bus dudes up to date.
[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think the bus is sweet too. But 170mph takes alot of horsepower. I think you could conservatively say it'd require round 650-750 (just to maintain 170 - not accelerate to it, with the slicker .40cd of a transporter would take 500hp - rough #'s). That's 250-260hp per liter. An attainable number, but not very easily (it's close to what WRC cars run that have $$$$$ in research, and all kinds of techno crap controling them).
Then there is Steve's statement that it will not sustain full throttle for extended periods of time. How long of a period of tim does it take to accelerate to 170mph? I would say an extended period for sure.
Look up what the world speed record is in a beetle, then look at what it has for an engine. Look up top speeds for cars with tons less drag and what their hp #'s are.
That's why people (me) are suspect of the 170mph number. I think it's a sweet ride - but 170 raises some doubts.
That bus is sweet! Why would people call you a liar? I think they are jealous. Whats next for the bus? Keep us bus dudes up to date.
[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think the bus is sweet too. But 170mph takes alot of horsepower. I think you could conservatively say it'd require round 650-750 (just to maintain 170 - not accelerate to it, with the slicker .40cd of a transporter would take 500hp - rough #'s). That's 250-260hp per liter. An attainable number, but not very easily (it's close to what WRC cars run that have $$$$$ in research, and all kinds of techno crap controling them).
Then there is Steve's statement that it will not sustain full throttle for extended periods of time. How long of a period of tim does it take to accelerate to 170mph? I would say an extended period for sure.
Look up what the world speed record is in a beetle, then look at what it has for an engine. Look up top speeds for cars with tons less drag and what their hp #'s are.
That's why people (me) are suspect of the 170mph number. I think it's a sweet ride - but 170 raises some doubts.
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Pillow
- Posts: 2940
- Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2001 1:01 am
Bus spanks a done up mustang!!
"The difference being that my motor cannot sustain full throttle for extended periods of time. The peak torque of my engine is reached at 7800 RPM and the peak HP is much higher because of a very broad power band."
Does it idle at 5000 RPM? Really it must have horrible idling problems with that much cam. A few people who come to the PCA Auto-X events have those big nasty cams and it is hilarious listening to the lopey idle and wondering how it can even stay on with that choppy lope.
What is the issue with sustained open throttle? Oil temps? I am kind of curious what size oil cooler you have tucked under there for adequate cooling... It has to be massive.
Thanks for joining us SteveBus. Keep us posted on new progress.
... Granted Brutus has a great point on the land speed thing. 170 is about 100 more than a bus should go.
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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia - "Biscuit"
'79 Porsche 911 SC - "Cochise"
Does it idle at 5000 RPM?
Really it must have horrible idling problems with that much cam. A few people who come to the PCA Auto-X events have those big nasty cams and it is hilarious listening to the lopey idle and wondering how it can even stay on with that choppy lope.What is the issue with sustained open throttle? Oil temps? I am kind of curious what size oil cooler you have tucked under there for adequate cooling... It has to be massive.
Thanks for joining us SteveBus. Keep us posted on new progress.
... Granted Brutus has a great point on the land speed thing. 170 is about 100 more than a bus should go.
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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia - "Biscuit"
'79 Porsche 911 SC - "Cochise"
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petevw
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2001 12:01 am
Bus spanks a done up mustang!!
it does idle low and lumpy but with no "horrible idle problems" at around 1100. then its crisp and clean revving. you should see the vid on the needforspeed site of it running too 240km/h in 4thgear, listen rpm's accelerating, and the turbo winding down when he lets off.
i saw it for the first time at a street race about 4yrs ago (when it was purple) pulling up the front wheels in second gear.
well since then, i've been in steve's bus many times during this "buildup". i've sat in the passenger seat feeling, hearing, seeing this motor bury the tach needle straight down past center, waaay after 9000rpm.
u have got to see to believe! the bus hasnt been up too that speed ever again, the windshield at that speed begins to pulsate. i believe the 270km/h was tracked with a GPS unit not the speedo.
this "toaster" has outrun 750ccbikes, and SS camaros down the highway. its well known in around here for spanking turbo NOS'd imports. it even pulled a old drag prepped Nova by a couple cars.
i remember the night the turbo work was completed. it was late..early morning, we went for a shakedown run. after a few blasts we couldnt speak and were shaking. just stupid grins and laughter. after getting back to the shop motor sounded real funny.. figured the worst-broken timing chains. but afterwards found out flywheel came loose. thats not supposed to happen. and the 915 box is supposed to be tough..yeah right, he had to put turbo 911 internals in to keep it together. also this summer he blew second gear.
this bus is putting out some serious HP numbers, i put it in the 550-750hp range.
later,
pete
ohh....i walked into my garage today where my bug is hibernating, and steve.... the superflo's were calling out for your flowbench loving..LOL
[This message has been edited by petevw (edited 01-22-2002).]
i saw it for the first time at a street race about 4yrs ago (when it was purple) pulling up the front wheels in second gear.
well since then, i've been in steve's bus many times during this "buildup". i've sat in the passenger seat feeling, hearing, seeing this motor bury the tach needle straight down past center, waaay after 9000rpm.
u have got to see to believe! the bus hasnt been up too that speed ever again, the windshield at that speed begins to pulsate. i believe the 270km/h was tracked with a GPS unit not the speedo.
this "toaster" has outrun 750ccbikes, and SS camaros down the highway. its well known in around here for spanking turbo NOS'd imports. it even pulled a old drag prepped Nova by a couple cars.
i remember the night the turbo work was completed. it was late..early morning, we went for a shakedown run. after a few blasts we couldnt speak and were shaking. just stupid grins and laughter. after getting back to the shop motor sounded real funny.. figured the worst-broken timing chains. but afterwards found out flywheel came loose. thats not supposed to happen. and the 915 box is supposed to be tough..yeah right, he had to put turbo 911 internals in to keep it together. also this summer he blew second gear.
this bus is putting out some serious HP numbers, i put it in the 550-750hp range.
later,
pete
ohh....i walked into my garage today where my bug is hibernating, and steve.... the superflo's were calling out for your flowbench loving..LOL
[This message has been edited by petevw (edited 01-22-2002).]
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Pillow
- Posts: 2940
- Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2001 1:01 am
Bus spanks a done up mustang!!
I am surprised the 915 tranny would live 1000 miles with that much HP and RPM.
1st is notorious for fragging the dogteeth and synchro.
The 930 tranny w/ limited slip is the only way to go... Some hot rod Turbos even frag the limited slip after a while.
1100 for an idle still seems low.
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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia - "Biscuit"
'79 Porsche 911 SC - "Cochese"
1st is notorious for fragging the dogteeth and synchro.
The 930 tranny w/ limited slip is the only way to go... Some hot rod Turbos even frag the limited slip after a while.
1100 for an idle still seems low.
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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia - "Biscuit"
'79 Porsche 911 SC - "Cochese"