Split vs. Bay Crash Safety

ScottC · Post by **ScottC** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 2:37 pm

I'm curious what safety improvements were made in the model changes 67-68+. Are Baywindow buses greatly safer than Split Windows? My wife is stuck on the split-window look and I want her to be in a realitively safe vehicle.

To me, VWs progressively lost their "coolness" factor as the US safety regs. got more strict.

I'd appreciate any info. available. Thanks...

Puck · Post by **Puck** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 3:13 pm

Unless she is planning to drive from the middle of the bus neither are that incredibly safe. You have to remember that you are sitting about 1 foot (if that) From the front of the bus. Both the early and late busses are pretty much tin cans in the front.

carapace · Post by **carapace** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 3:29 pm

Except for maybe the beefier subframe in the bay window bus, there isn't much difference. Best bet is not to tailgate!
If you want safe, get a Honda or something. No coolness factor, though.

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Simon Sez
www.carapace-design.com
Bad Dog Racing-www.gregsvw.com

OP · Post by OP » Fri Mar 01, 2002 5:31 pm

There where no real improvements until the early 70's even then I wouldn't want to be involved in a head on. As said just don't tail gate.

OP

Poor Realist · Post by **Poor Realist** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 5:57 pm

Just so you know, the Vanagon and the Bays have the same subframe architecture. Splits don't. You do the math:
http://www.vanagon.com/info/safety/

72SuicideRag · Post by **72SuicideRag** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 6:19 pm

Just my personal opinion, but I don't feel that either are that safe. I've owned both and neither one give me a warm fuzzy feeling if I were to get hit in the front.

My buddy hit a deer in his '76 camper going about 45 mph. I was amazed how much damage that deer did to his bus. Luckily he was ok (my buddy...not the deer) but the front end totally caved in and his legs were trapped between the front end and the seat until the fire dept pried him out. The steering column got shoved forward and destroyed his dash.

A while back I came across a bus where the owner welded up a "roll bar" type cage for the area under the dash. Had 3 tubes going from side to side connected at the corners and the middle. He had the mounting points across the floor and also had 2 bars extending back along the bottom of the doors that mounted to the wheel wells (reinforced under the floor and wheel wells). Don't know how well it would hold up in a wreck, though... But, perhaps better than nothing.

~~~Steve

Derek May · Post by **Derek May** » Fri Mar 01, 2002 6:59 pm

A deer at 45 mph does incredible damage to almost any vehicle ...

From my junk yard observations, and info in the link a couple of messages above, the fact that driver and passenger are up higher than most vehicles, and the fact of the subframe absorbing impact, translates into the Van being of average safety, not like a volvo or merc, but not as bad as reputed.

Remember, the Vanogon was sold in North America until '91, and was basically the same in the structural areas, and would have had to have met safety standards in the '80s.

I'm not suggesting the bus is great for safety, but not as bad as reputed. Livestock DO make me a little nervous though, mostly for the thought of what a moose or cow would do the beloved bus.

regis101 · Post by **regis101** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 8:59 am

Greetings. I seem to remember reading that the bay window bus has a type of crumple zone. Not quite sure of the year. I have noticed my drivind style is different with the westy. I drive more defensively and slower in general. And if you knew me, that would be a ," Wow."

SuperBeetle71 · Post by **SuperBeetle71** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 10:08 pm

Everyone brings up how close to the front of the vehicle we are when we drive them. Remember, VW, Mitsubishi and Toyota built sit-on-the-tire style vans until a few years ago, so industry saftey people must be cool with the idea even with new modern strict safety standards.

Hitting a 150 lb deer at nearly 50 miles an hour would damage the hell out of any car, especially new cars that break to pieces in an accident, probably a total insurance loss any way it happens.

Derek May · Post by **Derek May** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 11:09 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by regis101:
Greetings. I seem to remember reading that the bay window bus has a type of crumple zone. Not quite sure of the year. I have noticed my drivind style is different with the westy. I drive more defensively and slower in general. And if you knew me, that would be a ," Wow." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is structure under the floor and inside the bumper that acts to absorb crash impact. A couple of tubes branching off the frame and joined up with the box beam inside the front bumper.

.. and in a Westy, we all driver slower, it just goes without saying in a 5,000lb vehicle with 70hp and 101ftlbs torque!

Pillow · Post by **Pillow** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 8:32 am

... Depends what you hit.

The bus being semi-high off the ground can cavitate other cars, basically run up over them. Even the outrageously overrated Volvos get creamed by busses. Granted since now over 50% of vehicles produced are SUV/trucks busses cannot cavitate them and you run serious risk of hitting above the bus crumple zone, which means your legs are toast.

All the government test are into a brick wall which is amazing inept at showing real world scenarios.

For safety in a bus make sure the horn works, upgrade to disk brakes, and mebbe put an ugly roo-bar on the front.

As for the livestock hitting... It sucks for all cars. basically you end up snapping the legs off the animal immediately and then you have a ton of hamburger you are hitting above the crumple zone at 45 MPH. Lots of time on normal cars they will come right in the front window and smash your head off, in a bus this is not an issue because you sit high enough.

... Sure crappie things can happen when driving, but such is life... And I like to leave the house sometimes no matter what the risks are.

Then again the worst two automotive trends has been airbags and SUVs. Both very negative for different reasons.

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Adrian Pillow
'66 VW Westfalia - "Biscuit"
'79 Porsche 911 SC - "Cochese"

TomB · Post by **TomB** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 10:00 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by 72SuicideRag:
I've owned both and neither one give me a warm fuzzy feeling if I were to get hit in the front.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not bad: a "warm fuzzy" feeling of safety while driving is dangerous. One factor in SUV deaths and rollovers is that the drivers feel invulnerable in such a big vehicle and drive much too fast for their ability and conditions.
If all drivers believed they would die in event of an accident we would all be a lot more careful.
But more on-topic: When I bought my last Vanagon in 91 a then-recent study showed the Vanagon fared much better in accidents than people expected. Probably because it would tend to over-ride most of the cars on the road then. I suspect it would be very different with all the high-riding traffic today.

Brutus · Post by **Brutus** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 7:02 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by ScottC:
My wife is stuck on the split-window look and I want her to be in a realitively safe vehicle.

To me, VWs progressively lost their "coolness" factor as the US safety regs. got more strict..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This sounds vaugely like the same conversation my wife and I have had! Spooky. She loves the splitty 21 windows, and campers. The safety factor scares me too. Not tailgating doesn't help much when someone runs a red and you broad side them. I've been in a couple of major accidents (one where I was broadsided by someone going 75mph and folded a camry in half- broke two ribs), so I'm a bit paranoid about such things. Course at least a Micro Bus won't eject the rear seat like 80's Caravans.

There was a company long time back that made an "Inner Bumper" for busses. It was very close to the frame work mentioned earlier. If made right it certainly could help - if made wrong, it could just make it that much harder to extract you're legs after a crash.

rich2481 · Post by **rich2481** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 7:30 am

I just hang tires all around mine like a tug boat for defensive driving and hell if they dont come off the line at a green light fast enough, I figure I got gas and engine for two cars, give them alittle push

dstar5000 · Post by **dstar5000** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 8:34 am

>...and hell if they dont come off the line at a green light fast enough, I figure I got gas and engine for two cars, give them alittle push

BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Don

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78 Westy 2.0l
71 Bradley GT 1641cc
"Honesty is the cornerstone of all success, without which confidence and ability to perform shall cease to exist."
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