Electric off-road vehicles

Offroad VW based vehicles have problems/insights all their own. Not to mention the knowledge gained in VW durability.
Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 17770
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm

Re: Electric off-road vehicles

Post by Ol'fogasaurus »

chuckput wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:00 am They have an EV Class at the Pike's Peak Hill climb and they have to haul large, commercial generators up there to insure the EVs are fully charged prior to the start. I still think that for recreational EV vehicles like a buggy, the manufactures will need to develop an interchangeable battery pack similar to what is used in power tools to be usable and successful. You can bring 2 or 3 batteries and charge one while out driving. Yes, the use of a gas or diesel generator to charge your batteries does negate the green aspect of EVs, but there aren't too many options out there. It could be argued that a generator uses less fuel and emits less pollutants than many vehicles running off road currently.
Without pointing fingers... from what I think I am hearing that there is a lot of changes/discoveries (both good and bad) going on over the electric motor thing. For on road cars supposedly the rest stops are supposedly going to have charging stations (will the charging station be required to wear a mask :roll: :lol:) that should recharge the batteries within a fairly short period of time which doesn't do off-roaders much good. Also, will the state and fed off-road sites do this also and how much "gouging" will be done :? :shock: ?

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_battery) Some current info on they batteries electric off-road batteries might be using.

(https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=el ... BasicHover) Images of current electric vehicle batteries that we might be using (at least a starting look as I am sure that the batteries will change) which means that our off-road vehicle designs (and weight) will most likely change in several ways.

Getting to be an interesting subject for sure.

Lee

https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a ... tery-life/

Just ran into this.

Lee
ninelives17
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:27 am

Re: Electric off-road vehicles

Post by ninelives17 »

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/jeep ... -charging/

Jeep is installing solar chargers on the Rubicon Trail and Moab.
Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 17770
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm

Re: Electric off-road vehicles

Post by Ol'fogasaurus »

Had some time today so I went looking for info on transmissions for electric cars. From what I got out of it electric vehicles have only one gear and no clutch. No discussion on reverse so until I learn more I am assuming the the electric motor is run backwards for reverse. It also sounded like the trans, for us'n off-roaders might be a very low gear ratio. Again, no proof other then dialogue in some of the writeups I read.

Maybe it will be bus boxes with almost no innards :shock: :lol: . You still need the big angle CV joints as I don't think one would put an electric motor on each rear wheel.

Lee
User avatar
Leatherneck
Moderator
Posts: 17104
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:47 pm

Re: Electric off-road vehicles

Post by Leatherneck »

Anybody know how much it costs $$ to fill up a typical EV from empty or close to?
User avatar
chuckput
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:01 pm

Re: Electric off-road vehicles

Post by chuckput »

https://youtu.be/j-WpI-W5vqo

I watched this yesterday. It details EV West in Oceanside, CA that uses recycled Tesla parts to retrofit classic vehicles to electric power trains. One vehicle they feature is a VW Baja Bug which the host only drives around an empty lot. It still does not answer the question as to how you charge your off road EV.
Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 17770
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm

Re: Electric off-road vehicles

Post by Ol'fogasaurus »

Thanks for this post Chuck; while not a big Mike Brewer fan there a lot of information compacted in this video. Also some of the side video's posted look like there is more VW at al info in them.

I think the open chassis sand rails are going to be interesting to see the changes they will have to go through to get here.

Lee
User avatar
chuckput
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:01 pm

Re: Electric off-road vehicles

Post by chuckput »

Leatherneck wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:11 am Anybody know how much it costs $$ to fill up a typical EV from empty or close to?
If you were an early Tesla S buyer, the cost was free. Now you are charged when you hook up to one of their Supercharger stations. Or you can charge it at home.

I found these tidbits:
If electricity costs $0.13 per kWh and the vehicle consumes 33 kWh to travel 100 miles, the cost per mile is about $0.04. If electricity costs $0.13 per kilowatt-hour, charging an EV with a 200-mile range (assuming a fully depleted 66 kWh battery) will cost about $9 to reach a full charge.

According to Solar Reviews, the average cost to fully charge a Tesla Model X is $15.29. The amount is calculated based on a vehicle that uses a 100 kWh battery with an 85% charging efficiency rate.

The average household cost of electricity of $0.13 per kWh is used. Lasting 360 miles on one charge, the cost per mile is approximately $0.042 per mile or $4.24 per 100 miles driven.

Using the same calculations, a Tesla Model 3 with a 50 kWh battery and 263 miles of range will cost $7.65 for a full charge. The cost per mile is approximately $0.03 or $2.91 per 100 miles.

The Tesla Model S Long Range variant runs 412 miles on one charge, costing $15.29. The cost per mile is $0.037 or $3.70 per 100 miles. The cost to charge the battery on the new Tesla Model Y is $11.47. It is equivalent to $0.047 per mile or $4.70 per 100 miles.
User avatar
Leatherneck
Moderator
Posts: 17104
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:47 pm

Re: Electric off-road vehicles

Post by Leatherneck »

That’s not bad at all. For highway cars it’s going to get less expensive in the next couple of years to own one. Not sure about Tesla stock though.
User avatar
chuckput
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:01 pm

Re: Electric off-road vehicles

Post by chuckput »

Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 17770
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm

Re: Electric off-road vehicles

Post by Ol'fogasaurus »

Its going faster (no pun intended) than I thought!

Lee
Jbuggy21
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:41 am

Re: Electric off-road vehicles

Post by Jbuggy21 »

That has been on race-Dezert getting a lot of interest. Mostly positive but that is a rough course and a small operation. Should be interesting to see. They could run a stock full class and just baby it around the course, but I think the most interesting thing will be if they can finish on one charge or have to swap batteries. From what I’ve read it doesn’t sound like anything is getting 250miles while being driven aggressively. All that being said its awesome and I hope that people support it and not discourage. Off-road racing is a small world. We need all the help we can get to keep it alive.
Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 17770
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm

Re: Electric off-road vehicles

Post by Ol'fogasaurus »

Jbuggy21 wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:59 am That has been on race-Dezert getting a lot of interest. Mostly positive but that is a rough course and a small operation. Should be interesting to see. They could run a stock full class and just baby it around the course, but I think the most interesting thing will be if they can finish on one charge or have to swap batteries. From what I’ve read it doesn’t sound like anything is getting 250miles while being driven aggressively. All that being said its awesome and I hope that people support it and not discourage. Off-road racing is a small world. We need all the help we can get to keep it alive.
Interesting question and for several reasons. If you watched the Steve McQueen movie "Le Mans" at the end of the movie... to make things exiting, one of Steve McQueen's team's car has a broken rear suspension then their competitor has battery problems so each of the vehicles has to have replacements which allows Steve to replace the original driver in the one car so he and the other driver (hot competitors' in a lot races) giving an exciting bumpity-bumpity ending.

To name one other possibility...would having to change batteries near the end so you have a fresh race car be good or bad and or make a close race more exciting?

For us'n sand guys and girls who just ride the sand for fun or to get the &%#$% scared out of you it would be more like can you get back to camp on the charge you are carrying at the time.

It is sounding more and more like electric power has the potential to change things a lot.

Lee
User avatar
chuckput
Posts: 441
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:01 pm

Re: Electric off-road vehicles

Post by chuckput »

The San Felipe race by Lordstown will be interesting to watch. As the article states, they aren't really campaigning the truck. It will only be the platform, or "skateboard" as they call it. So, probably a buggy?
Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 17770
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm

Re: Electric off-road vehicles

Post by Ol'fogasaurus »

chuckput wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:59 pm
Leatherneck wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:11 am ... electricity costs $0.13 per kWh and the vehicle consumes 33 kWh to travel 100 miles, the cost per mile is about $0.04. If electricity costs $0.13 per kilowatt-hour, charging an EV with a 200-mile range (assuming a fully depleted 66 kWh battery) will cost about $9 to reach a full charge.

According to Solar Reviews, the average cost to fully charge a Tesla Model X is $15.29. The amount is calculated based on a vehicle that uses a 100 kWh battery with an 85% charging efficiency rate.

The average household cost of electricity of $0.13 per kWh is used. Lasting 360 miles on one charge, the cost per mile is approximately $0.042 per mile or $4.24 per 100 miles driven.

Using the same calculations, a Tesla Model 3 with a 50 kWh battery and 263 miles of range will cost $7.65 for a full charge. The cost per mile is approximately $0.03 or $2.91 per 100 miles.

The Tesla Model S Long Range variant runs 412 miles on one charge, costing $15.29. The cost per mile is $0.037 or $3.70 per 100 miles. The cost to charge the battery on the new Tesla Model Y is $11.47. It is equivalent to $0.047 per mile or $4.70 per 100 miles.
Gad... electrical charging (aka gas taxes) taxes are going to go nuts over this. A nickel for mile charge for electricity and a couple of dollars of taxes per mile charge (a different type of charge though) :shock: :? :evil: :wink: :lol: .

Lee
User avatar
dustymojave
Posts: 2312
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:08 pm

Re: Electric off-road vehicles

Post by dustymojave »

Leaving the MORE offroad race at Barstow a couple of weeks ago, where my son was in the 2nd place 5/1600 and another team member won the class and for most of the race another team member ran 3rd, my son and I stopped at a gas station in Lenwood off the I-15 to use the restroom, get some snacks and drinks for the drive home. My son decided to check the oil in his diesel F350 4x4 crew cab.

While he was doing that, a guy pulled up in the handicap space next to us in a Tesla with no handicap plates, or hang tag inside. The Tesla DID have Ohio plates. The guy got out not wearing a face mask and went inside. He was ejected from the store for not having a mask. There was a tank truck that had just finished filling the station's tanks. My son went to throw a paper in the trash next to the door as the guy got ejected. The gasoline tank truck driver was next to the trash can with a clip board doing paper work. Probably the invoice for the gas delivery. So the Tesla guy steps up close to the truck driver and my son, still maskless, and asked "Where is the Supercharging terminal?" As the tank truck driver and my son backed away from Mr. Up-close-and-and-personal, they asked what he was talking about. The guy just said as he leaned towards them, "You know, the supercharging connection." He was talking about the battery charger for his Tesla. He was asking a guy who drives a diesel big rig delivering gasoline to gas stations and another guy who is driving a 26 year old diesel pickup truck. Not folks likely to know about "SuperCharging Stations" for Teslas, Apparently they don't grow 'em real bright in his neck of the woods in Ohio.

I had to wonder how many hours he had to stop along his drive from Ohio to California to charge his Tesla. If he got 200 miles per charge, that would have gotten him from the Arizona or Nevada border to Barstow on a charge. When I did that trip in my Durango SUV with a travel trailer on the back, topped up in Kingman AZ and stopped again at the same gas station in Lenwood. Took about 1/2 tank, that cost 2.25 per gallon in AZ, The refill in Cali cost was $3.79/gallon. A bit under 20mpg, which for an SUV towing a travel trailer is pretty good. But still more per mile by far than the EV. But it took that guy in the Tesla longer to find a charging station, just in what we saw, and we don't know if he DID find one, than it took us to fill up with gas. Similar results to what was shown on Grand Tour in England a while back comparing an electric super car to gasoline fueled super cars. The infrastructure just is NOT close to ready for all electric vehicles and won't be for quite a while. And to maintain roads for electric cars that do not pay road tax for their fuel, the state of California has already doubled gas taxes. So the rest of us are paying for electric cars to cruise blithely around. Not to mention that I'm only STARTING to see charging stations for electric cars with a credit card. I would hope that they charge a road tax per KW of power obtained from those charging stations. Or charge a road use tax on the annual registration renewal for the car.

A friend of my son bought a Chevy plug-in electric car for his wife. Then paid about $12K to have the house wired to plug it in. The car spent near 1/2 of it's 1st year in the dealer shop getting repaired for various problems. Then a little over a year after they bought it new, they traded it in on a used conventional gasoline car.

Our electric provider tells us that we're using about 400KwH of electricity per month in our 1750 sq. ft home. Looking at teh "Home Energy Report" received yesterday. Our electric bill averages about $100/mo. If we were still working as we did before we retired, super-commuting down into the San Fernando Valley with a round trip of about 160 to 220 miles/day 5 days/week. With a standard charge rate of 12 hours/full 85% charge daily. It wouldn't be charged the next morning at time to leave for work 10 hours after arriving at home. Of course it COULD get a 1/2 charge at work. Provided work HAS a charging station available... And I haven't worked for a large company since 1986. If you ADD 66KwH of electric consumption 5 days per week x 4-1/13 weeks per month to charge the EV, that would be:
66 x 5 x 4.33 = 1,429 KwH/month.
3-1/2 times as much electricity as we're using now. or $350/mo for electricity.

It's interesting that Southern California Edison, in that Home Energy Report, asks us to conserve electricity. It's common for them to talk about "rolling blackouts" when the electric grid is overwhelmed in hot weather. In that same report, It offers rebates and other incentives to buy an electric vehicle. That makes lots of sense, doesn't it? :idea: :idea: :idea: :?: :?: :?: :roll:

We used to commute in a 94 Honda Civic that averaged about 40mpg. About 5 gallons/day of commuting. Monthly cost for gas, INCLUDING road taxes and sales taxes on gas, at $3.79/gallon current price = $410.27 for gas. But not a fair comparison in that EVs are NOT currently paying sales tax or road tax on what makes them go. And many are not paying for the electricity at public charging stations, But we who pay our electric bills pay for it around the back way. Meanwhile, there is noise about that SCE will soon be doubling our electric rates to cover damages in last year's brush fires. That would bring the EV fuel cost to about $700/month


And then .... we could talk about where we'll get enough of the raw materials for all those batteries. Then where they can be manufactured. Then where can they be recycled. Then where can they be disposed of?

It's NOT all that easy.
Richard
Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
Speed Kills! but then...So does OLD AGE!!
Tech Inspection: SCCA / SCORE / HDRA / ARVRA / A.R.T.S. OffRoad Race Tech - MDR, MORE, Glen Helen BajaCup
Retired Fabricator
'58 Baja with 955K Miles and counting
Post Reply