New guy, new build

[Chip Birks]

As I get closer to putting in the motor I’m starting to think about stuff I’d love to do that I never had a chance to try with it before. Are there any good write ups on people using the flex fuel sensor with the megasquirt ecu in a VW application.

I assume I’d just need the sensor, get ethenol rated fuel line and some bigger injectors.

I've always had flex fuel sensors in use. Don't even have e85 locally anymore, yet I still pop them into the fuel system, just in case. This is the one I've got in my bug, and for my bus.
https://a.co/d/2dHqtrB
You'll need adaptor fittings to whatever you have in your fuel system. I have the sensor plumbed into the return line sitting on the pan, under my tank, just before it returns into the tank. It works great. You'll need some kind of bracket to hold it down. There are solutions if you search. I think a lot are 3d printed. I honestly have no idea what I did on the bug, it's been in the car for at least 10 years now. I still need to find something for the bus.
Wiring is easy, most modern ecus have a dedicated flex input. Just use that, I think the sensor gets 12v, signal, and ground. You'll need to buy the special connector as well. It should show up as suggested when looking at the sensor on Amazon.
I run Teflon lined stainless steel braided hose everywhere in my fuel system. Basically good for any fuel. A good set of 1000cc injectors should do you just fine, with lots of headroom for horsepower. I'm running the same ID1000s I got 13 years ago for my boosted e85 burning 2276, on my stock, yet injected, 1600 burning cheapo 85 octane, today.

[Alexander_Monday]

Set the "Flex Fuel Sensor" to "Enabled".
Set the "Sensor Port" to the one you are using, If MS3X and using the default input it is "Flex input".
Set the "Temperature Input" to "Flex fuel".
With the GM sensor the "Fuel Sensor Settings" for "Spark/Fuel" & "Temp Sense" the default settings work for me.
I set "Baseline Ehtanol%" to 10.0.
The "Fallback for Sensor Failure" settings should be set to what you normally encounter fuel wise except timing addition I set to 0.0.
If your sensor does fail and you change fuel or fuel station or it is changing season (ethanol% varies by station and there is winter and summer blend) you best replace the sensor or disable it and run non ethanol fuel.
The best we could find locally summer blend is 76%=>77% ethanol.

If you can, ask others in your area that use E85 if they have the black goo problem.
If you can't, after running E85 for awhile pull an injector and check the end for black goo.
Some that run E85 encounter the black goo problem, my area is one of them.
It is area specific and the most credible reason is additives in the non ethanol fuel that decrease resistance in pipelines.
When mixed with ethanol it does not show up in the fuel lines or tank, but when it is injected into a mist in the manifold.
It isn't actually black, but the goo picks up black from exhaust reversion into the manifold.
It is extremely sticky and tough to remove, especially once cooked on the valves and in the combustion chamber.
I am trying to talk the guy that supplies racing fuel locally to get Sunoco E85r in 55 gal drums for me, but so far no luck.
So I am going to try adding Lucas Oil 10576 Safeguard Ethanol Fuel Conditioner with Stabilizers each fill up when I get my 2387 together.
This is after a few thousand miles on my 2110:

[Piledriver]

It works quite well on ms3, the table blending works flawlessly IME, the only bad thing is most of the e85 pumps around here became e20 pumps ~no one uses, or E0 pumps anyone with a lawnmower or weedeater and any sense buys frequently.
I was daily driving it NA, noticed it worked best over e70 and under e 20, e50 gave marginal performance and crap fuel economy, you couldn't tune around it for e30-e60.

It wasn't an issue with MS3, apparently, the middling % mixes had the lower energy density without the benefits for tuning.
Might work better boosted or with a high CR setup.

On MS2e, it works...ok. Memory limitations etc.

[chriswillrise]

It works quite well on ms3, the table blending works flawlessly IME, the only bad thing is most of the e85 pumps around here became e20 pumps ~no one uses, or E0 pumps anyone with a lawnmower or weedeater and any sense buys frequently.
I was daily driving it NA, noticed it worked best over e70 and under e 20, e50 gave marginal performance and crap fuel economy, you couldn't tune around it for e30-e60.

It wasn't an issue with MS3, apparently, the middling % mixes had the lower energy density without the benefits for tuning.
Might work better boosted or with a high CR setup.

On MS2e, it works...ok. Memory limitations etc.

I’m on ms2 v3 iirc I built it a few years ago. For now it’s just going to be getting the car running again then I will look into a flex fuel sensor. I actually have about 3 or 4 pumps within a couple miles of my house with e85 so it would be nice

[chriswillrise]

Update.

Got my motor and header in. Mostly wires since I saved the harness. I just need to get my relays and boost control solenoid wired and plumbed

[chriswillrise]

This was my last log before my crash. I think I should probably get some bigger injectors. Duty cycle was at 99.7 granted it was pretty rich on the pull. Currently have 52lb injectors what do you guys think I should look for.
Seems like if I stay gasoline I should be around 65lb or if I do e85 I should be in the 85lb range

[Alexander_Monday]

What fuel for that log, and are you changing fuel?

[chriswillrise]

What fuel for that log, and are you changing fuel?

That was gasoline. I’ve been playing with the idea of getting a flex fuel sensor and running e85

[Alexander_Monday]

For the same power level you will need between 40% to 45% larger injectors with E85.
Most recommendations are to size for 80% to 85% duty cycle.
You were basically topped out with 52# injectors at 10.22 AFR then that would have been 89% duty at 11.5AFR except you would have made more power so would have required more fuel.
Kind of a guessing game, but guessing that would have put you in the low to mid 90's duty cycle with a better AFR.
Lets guess 93% so to get that down to 80% would require 16% larger injectors = 60.5#.
Now add for E85 (and to be safe because your IAT will be lower which should make more power) lets add the higher 45% = 87.65# = 920.3cc.
This calculates out at about 335HP at the crank with E85 and 80% duty cycle.
Does that HP sound about right?
Bear in mind that good injectors are needed for that size so your idle doesn't become untenable.
I was running 850cc with my 2110 and almost maxed them out so I am going to ID1050x injectors for my 2387.

[Alexander_Monday]

Oh, BTW my HP was 285 at the crank by acceleration log calcs topped out with 850cc injectors and 78% ethanol, but was running a tad rich.

[Chip Birks]

This was my last log before my crash. I think I should probably get some bigger injectors. Duty cycle was at 99.7 granted it was pretty rich on the pull. Currently have 52lb injectors what do you guys think I should look for.
Seems like if I stay gasoline I should be around 65lb or if I do e85 I should be in the 85lb range

I'd go at least 1000s, like i said before, a good 1000cc injector won't care what size the engine is. I'm currently running ID1000s on a stock 1600 on gas, cuzz that's what I had. Doesn't miss a beat, tunes nicely. Buy as much injector as you can afford, within reason I guess. I'd definitely rather err on the large side than limit your power on top by going too small.

[chriswillrise]

Sounds like ill be getting some ID1050X injectors soon.

Im trying to remember all my wiring to the relay board.

My output for the Water/Meth pump relay is Fidle so iirc the ground for the relay should be to the Fidle output on the relay board.

My boost control solenoid output is IAC2 but I cant recall what the output was on the relayboard, S3 or S4 (iac2A or iac2B). I guess I can test continuity to ground once I have everything wired up and turn the output on and off? And I assume the + for the solenoid is just a constant power and the ground is to the relay board

Trying to relearn this after 3 years is no fun haha

Got it all figured out last night! Making some final connections this week. Possibly ready for a test start this weekend

[Piledriver]

If you have ms3+ms3x or any of the -pro integrated ecus you can (at least electrically...) easily go staged injectors, they are built for v8s. if you dont mind batch injection, you can do it on a std ms2e box.
Welding in the second set of injector bungs will be the work.

With the stockish style intake the cast aluminum soaks up a lot of oil, I once tried to figure out a way to drill/tap,screw in bungs rather than weld old oily aluminum. With the long nose Audi style injectors it almost works.

If you had ITBs with hats, the staged injectors could go in the lid of the hats, ( or lacking ITBs, just weber manifolds with hats and an upstream TB) pointing down.

[chriswillrise]

If you have ms3+ms3x or any of the -pro integrated ecus you can (at least electrically...) easily go staged injectors, they are built for v8s. if you dont mind batch injection, you can do it on a std ms2e box.
Welding in the second set of injector bungs will be the work.

With the stockish style intake the cast aluminum soaks up a lot of oil, I once tried to figure out a way to drill/tap,screw in bungs rather than weld old oily aluminum. With the long nose Audi style injectors it almost works.

If you had ITBs with hats, the staged injectors could go in the lid of the hats, ( or lacking ITBs, just weber manifolds with hats and an upstream TB) pointing down.

I’m on ms2 v3 so I’m just batch fire/ wasted spark currently. It has worked well for how I drive the car. I’ve never raced to anything so I don’t try and squeeze everything out of it.

[Piledriver]

Sequential wont make any more power unless you are looking for that last few % by individual cylinder timing and injection volume tweaks (or have large cylinder-to-cylinder variations to compensate for). It does save a little fuel , lower emissions, and has some drivability benefits.