Cryogenic Treatment

michaelmoo · Post by **michaelmoo** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:28 am

Jake.
I know that your kits are designed to work together. I was wondering what you thought of the cryogenic treatment. I read that some of your engines have had the treatment done. I?m looking at a 914 2270 kit (with KitCarlsen FI) for this fall and wondered what you thought about it on this kit. What would that do to the option of Balance Rotating Assembly and Pre-prepare Engine Kit Assembly? The car would be a street only car.

Thanks,
Mike

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:30 am

Mike, Since we have taken the customization away from engine kits cryo treatment is NOT an option any longer on kits and or individual parts.

The process slows down the prep time for the kits and speed and more volume is the ONLY way we have been able to drop the kit prices so drastically.

ALL my Turnkey engines receive Cry enhancement. I have seen the huge benefits from it and thats why we treat every engine that leaves the dyno with it. If the process wasn't so detailed and expensive the kits would also receive it...

we have a long enough backlog on complete engines to allow for the cryo option and not effect our delivery times.

The store has been such a success that we are having an issue just keeping parts on the shelves to fill orders with... I make up 10 of something and the next day we are backordered for two more than that....... Its a good problem to have!

4getaboutit · Post by **4getaboutit** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:35 am

Jake if you got a kit, would it be possible to have the parts frozen locally? Would it affect balance or would there be other issues?
Thanks

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:01 am

Its more than simple "freezing"... Different metallurgy effects the temperature the parts are taken down to and the rate they are taken there as well as the rate they are brought back to room temp..

Its called "Custom Thermal Cycling" for a good reason. The guys that I work with have created an entire program just for the aircooled engine and more specifically the Type 4 engine.... They have been doing this with me for 5 years now and we have conquered a lot of challenges with diffferent profiles.

You could send them the entire "Kit" or have me ship it to them when its completed and then deal with them directly.. Their website is www.percryo.com

dstar · Post by **dstar** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:18 am

Cryo isn't supposed to effect balance or dimensions.
It's freeze it and forget it!

Some parts shouldn't be *frozen*, just the "wear items".....

Don

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:38 am

Hmmn..
The cryo effects overall strength as much as wearability.... I virtually do every part of the engine including rockers, shafts, valves, keepers, retainers, rods, rod bolts and the works...

Even valve seats are done before they are installed!

dstar · Post by **dstar** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:53 am

Valve springs too?
THey ahve very good pricing!

http://www.percryo.com/lg_eng_pricing.htm

I think I'm gonna send my cam to them, it is an EP......and I'll be using HEAVY Johnsons.

Don

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:54 am

Yep.. springs REALLY benefit from it..

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:28 am

WOW! 16 springs will cost the same as 8?

Since he charges the same for 4 cyls and 8, anyone want to put their parts with mine?

OF course, we can't sneak two CAMS in there, but you get the idea......

Don

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:03 pm

Ok....Jake....always the one to open the can of worms

But...I am building my own engine, but will be ordering cam, lifters, bearings and oil pump from you. Possibly springs and a few nick knacks as well.

Suppose....I got all of those parts in from you, dropped it into a box with my finished/balanced crank and rods.....and sent it to your cryo guys. Wherin...without giving me a single piece of info to me.....they cryo my parts to your specs.....but do not proceed....until they recieve e-mail or phone from you or Cathy....saying that you have recieved.....a "royalty" check (of sorts)...from me. After all, they...plus you.... did the research. But, they would get paid for the labor/service on the parts....you would get a royalty for an investment of your brain work....and never have to touch the stuff...or break into your busy production schedule.

Your thoughts please. Ray

vrsechslvr · Post by **vrsechslvr** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:32 am

Can you also Cryo the heads and block for benifit, or would that be overkill?
And after you Cryo any part you want to re-balance before install, right?

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:17 am

Cryo does not physically change components. No need to rebalance after the process, BUT don't try any machining after the process because it is much more difficult.

Yes, we cryo heads but they must be done with all guides, seats and etc removed. It increases the thermal conductivity of the head allowing heat to move faster into the cooling air stream..

I have cryoed cases to "Age" them but never did it to customer's engines... Just test and full race stuff.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:02 pm

That better heat conductivity interests me. I wasspeculating on having my heads hard anodized black....all external surfaces only. Comustion chambers, intake and exhaust tracts and rocker boxes would be masked. That alone...will draw signifcant heat from insideto the outside. Have you ever tried that Jake? Ray

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:05 pm

Yep...

BugKiller · Post by **BugKiller** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:01 pm

Jake, do you have any proof to back up your claims? This cryo treatment is interesting but is there any way to prove it as it is still quite expensive? Thanks, Bugkiller.