Efi and crank triggered ignition.Anywhere to get these 4 T4?

samcat · Post by **samcat** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:08 am

Any idea if this are/will be available for the T4 setup? Just planning ahead for when I eventually switch to full blown efi.

Cheers,
Sam C

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:44 am

I have ALL the brackets and the entire arrangement for the DTM for my EFI arrangement..

I also have a TIV specific direct fire arrangement that uses the same brackets but is for carbbed set ups... The price on that set up is 950.00 and I insytall the trigger wheel for you. This system is based on Electromotive components and works very well..

samcat · Post by **samcat** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:12 am

It would probably be around this time next year that I would be looking to purchase, just trying to get an idea of whats around and what I would need to do myself...

Would be going for full EFI and ignition, possibly central plenum.. Moving the stock T4 cooler on the DTM to above the gearbox with suitable plumbing from the DTM's current oil cooler air outlet and positioning the throttle body/plenum around the back of the DTM.. Injectors as close to the heads as is sensible, inboard. Could go with twin throttle bodies, but that doesnt have the same appeal for some reason?!

probably me being awkward.

Any thoughts or pictures?

I stress this is all just pre-planning stage at the moment, so dont worry about writing a long response. I have an awful lot of reading to do concerning sizing plemums, runners, throttle bodies, injectors and a million things I dont even know I have to read up on yet!

Cheers,
Sam C

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:29 am

If you have a July 2001 issue of VW Trends they covered my ignition set up in an article called "Two sparks are better than one"... There are some good pics of the direct ignition parts there..

samcat · Post by **samcat** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:29 pm

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:If you have a July 2001 issue of VW Trends they covered my ignition set up in an article called "Two sparks are better than one"... There are some good pics of the direct ignition parts there..

Dont have any copies of VW Trends... Will have to have an ask around and find a copy/get someone to scan it for me.

Thanks for the input Jake.

Sam C.

PS, Took the car out again tonight, and the engine really feels nice, definatly starting to loosen up... Can feel that the power is there, and at times she just wants to GO!
Only done about 100 miles of the break-in so far, due to some terrible weather (freezing fog) and work commitments... Though I am planning on getting some good miles on it over this weekend.

Beanbooger · Post by **Beanbooger** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:03 pm

samcat wrote:

Any idea if this are/will be available for the T4 setup? Just planning ahead for when I eventually switch to full blown efi.

Cheers,
Sam C

Sam,

That is the 36-1 trigger wheel/crank pulley on my Thing, using MSnEDIS. My company is Boost Engineering, and I manufacture and sell that setup for T1, and would be willing to look at a T4 to see what would be involved in producing a nice solution. Do you have any photos of the crank pulley installed on a T4, or if anyone with a T4 is in the LA South Bay area, PM me if you are willing to work with me.

Thanks,

Brian[/url]

samcat · Post by **samcat** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:36 pm

Hey Brian,

Thanks for posting the info. Someone posted the picture and a link to your site earlier over on www.volkszone.com/VZi, thats where I initially saw it.

I live in the UK, so popping the car in would be a bit of a pain

T4 in a T1, running a modded T1 pulley (from Jake).

Best picture I have to hand is the following:

As stated above, I wouldnt be looking into purchasing until this time next year.. But if you have something for the T4 by then I might be interested, need to weigh up different options.

Cheers again,
Sam C

Beanbooger · Post by **Beanbooger** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:50 pm

Sam,

Looking at that, I could modify YOUR EXISTING pulley, if you take it off and send it to me. Price would be about $75, complete with the adapter and trigger wheel.

Thanks,

Brian

Passatman · Post by **Passatman** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:06 pm

What are the benifits of running such a system.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:16 pm

Absolute spark accuracy... My arrangement of choice is accurate to 1/10 of one crank degree up to 9,000 RPM... The benefits of that are HUGE if you have an engine making power after 6,000 RPM- not just revving.. Samcats engine will make power to 6,500 RPM.

Ignition timing is a very important part of making power. We can see a 2 degree timing change make 10HP or 40+ degrees of head temperature difference. Some distributors can fluctuate in accuracy by 3-4 degrees at higher RPM, so the engien is constantly scattered and not consistent. The Mallory is a huge exception to this and they are very accurate compared to any other dizzy- BUT nothing is as accuare as a direct ignition arrangement.

The higer the engine revs the more power difference it makes...

Long story short I have beat the power a Mallory dizzy makes by 8HP+ on a 2270cc engine and if I remember correctly it made 15 lb/ft more torque at peak and aided in creatinga much flatter torque curve..
BUT the mallory is ecellent and cost less than half as much money!

samcat · Post by **samcat** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:50 pm

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:Samcats engine will make power to 6,500 RPM.

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:The Mallory is a huge exception to this and they are very accurate compared to any other dizzy- BUT nothing is as accuare as a direct ignition arrangement.

One of the reasons I went with a Mallory, superb bit of kit.

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote: Long story short I have beat the power a Mallory dizzy makes by 8HP+ on a 2270cc engine and if I remember correctly it made 15 lb/ft more torque at peak and aided in creatinga much flatter torque curve..
BUT the mallory is ecellent and cost less than half as much money!

Wow! Thats quite some difference! A flatter torque curve is a VERY nice thing to have, will have the whole driving experience far more fun.
The way I am looking at it the 2nd hand value of the Mallory is fairly high (as they rarely come up 2nd hand.. People who have them dont like to sell them), so should cover a nice chunk of the cost of switching (when I do).

Beanbooger wrote: Looking at that, I could modify YOUR EXISTING pulley, if you take it off and send it to me. Price would be about $75, complete with the adapter and trigger wheel.

Brian,

Due to distances involved (me in the UK, you in America), my preferred option if I went with your setup would be ordering a conversion pulley from Jake and getting it shipped to yourself for conversion, then you can ship it over to me. Its still a year away, plans have a tendency to change and I would need to weigh up all the options. Needless to say your website address and username on here have been noted down in my big book (where all ideas/plans/info gets committed to paper for future reference).

Again, thanks for all the info everyone. It really looks like EFI and crank triggered ignition for the T1/T4 is really starting to come of age (or perhaps it has been for a while and I am just noticing now that I am looking into it).

All the best,
Sam C

Steve Arndt · Post by **Steve Arndt** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:06 pm

The Electromotive is 60-2 and EDIS is 36-1. They are both quite accurite.
With the new megasquirt 2 MS&S code it has toothed wheel decoder algorithm. So, you can use almost any toothed wheel and it will work. You can also get by with as little as two crank trigger pickup points.

andy1303 · Post by **andy1303** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:32 pm

I have to say I've been looking at this a while, and my concern is not the mounting of the trigger wheel to the pulley, but the mounting of the pickup. Anyone have any thoughts?

Andy

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:38 am

I have the mounting of the pick up down to a science and have the parts all CNC machined. It looks very cool and fits perfectly on an upright TIV.

You guys seem to overlook the fact that I offer a complete EFI-DFI arrangement for the TIV already... It's a 100% bolt on with the trigger mount AND the modified crank pulley as well as a fuel and ignition MAP already loaded into it... It also includes fuel pump, regulator, throttle bodies and my stainless DTM compatible bellcrank linkage. All you need is fuel hoses.

Sam, I have a fuel/ignition curve for an engine EXACTING your kit. The last guy I uploaded one for was able to install the system and only set his deceleration values, nothing else was touched!

This is why we test things- to remove any and all guesswork.

samcat · Post by **samcat** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:07 am

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:I have the mounting of the pick up down to a science and have the parts all CNC machined. It looks very cool and fits perfectly on an upright TIV.

You guys seem to overlook the fact that I offer a complete EFI-DFI arrangement for the TIV already... It's a 100% bolt on with the trigger mount AND the modified crank pulley as well as a fuel and ignition MAP already loaded into it... It also includes fuel pump, regulator, throttle bodies and my stainless DTM compatible bellcrank linkage. All you need is fuel hoses.

Sam, I have a fuel/ignition curve for an engine EXACTING your kit. The last guy I uploaded one for was able to install the system and only set his deceleration values, nothing else was touched!

This is why we test things- to remove any and all guesswork.

Sounds like a plan.
Is it listed on the site? Just wondering on the price for the full setup (EFI-DFI) that you would reccomend. If you dont want to post here simply pm/email it to me. If the price is right I may think about selling some stuff and get it a bit earlier (ie early next year).

Cheers again for all your input.

Sam C

Shoptalkforums.com

Efi and crank triggered ignition.Anywhere to get these 4 T4?

Efi and crank triggered ignition.Anywhere to get these 4 T4?

Re: Efi and crank triggered ignition.Anywhere to get these 4